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Let's say honesty is a fundamental personality trait. One can be honest and bribe in a country where bribery is accepted. That same person wouldn't in a country

by cglee 17y ago

Let's say honesty is a fundamental personality trait. One can be honest and bribe in a country where bribery is accepted. That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. It's not the act of bribing that determines one's personality trait - it's the honesty.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
nostrademons 17y ago
I don't really think honesty is a fundamental personality trait either. Consider that in polite adult society, there're many times that you are expected to lie, and it's considered rude if you don't. If a women asks, "Do I look fat?", do you say yes? If someone asks you "How are you?", do you go on about how your life sucks and you wish you had their job? It's more that there are certain culturally-dependent rules of behavior, and considerate people eventually learn and conform to those rules. Oftentimes the rules make zero sense in logical terms; they evolved through long years of accumulated customs. Most teenagers are still learning those rules, and part of learning them involves breaking them. Didn't you ever push the boundaries as a teenager? Do something that perhaps your parents and other authority figures disapproved of?
- cglee 17y ago
  I was just commenting on how it could be possible that accepting bribery in one country, but not in another doesn't imply a different fundamental personality trait, as was assumed in the example.
baguasquirrel 17y ago
Even that is actually rather blurry. There's a difference between gift-giving (and accompanying smalltalk) to build relationships, and gift-giving to get one's way. Understand that the former (gift-giving to build relationships) is designed to artificially create a high cost of entry to any new relationship so that people are discouraged from making bad deals (or otherwise behaving unethically). The latter (gift-giving in exchange for services) is generally not accepted for the simple reason that it subverts rational decision making on the part of officials. That much is the same everywhere. The fact that there is "bad" bribery in some relationship-based cultures does not diminish the fact that it's undesirable. People there may put up with it because they just need to get things done, much like the way we put up with the legal and patent system here. What the kid did in this case regarding the MacBook Air would likely be considered bribery in any country. It is clearly an exchange of goods in return for services rendered.
- Tichy 17y ago
  I hope this gets not turned on it's head and we are supposed to be sorry for the guy because he seems to be "socially challenged". He is general being described as a smart guy, it seems safe to assume that he knew exactly what he was doing. Also, I wonder how accepted bribes really are in some cultures. My guess is that bribes exist in certain cultures because their policies put people into power and give them the chance to ask for bribes. I don't think the people having to do the bribing particularly like it, but they can't help it because the other people are in power. It's maybe more a sign of a defunct legal system than of cultural attitudes.
radu_floricica 17y ago
> That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. Oh how much I wish it was a matter of legality. Unfortunately it's a matter of culture, which is a lot harder to change.

by cglee 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

nostrademons 17y ago

I don't really think honesty is a fundamental personality trait either. Consider that in polite adult society, there're many times that you are expected to lie, and it's considered rude if you don't. If a women asks, "Do I look fat?", do you say yes? If someone asks you "How are you?", do you go on about how your life sucks and you wish you had their job? It's more that there are certain culturally-dependent rules of behavior, and considerate people eventually learn and conform to those rules. Oftentimes the rules make zero sense in logical terms; they evolved through long years of accumulated customs. Most teenagers are still learning those rules, and part of learning them involves breaking them. Didn't you ever push the boundaries as a teenager? Do something that perhaps your parents and other authority figures disapproved of?

cglee 17y ago
I was just commenting on how it could be possible that accepting bribery in one country, but not in another doesn't imply a different fundamental personality trait, as was assumed in the example.

baguasquirrel 17y ago

Even that is actually rather blurry. There's a difference between gift-giving (and accompanying smalltalk) to build relationships, and gift-giving to get one's way. Understand that the former (gift-giving to build relationships) is designed to artificially create a high cost of entry to any new relationship so that people are discouraged from making bad deals (or otherwise behaving unethically). The latter (gift-giving in exchange for services) is generally not accepted for the simple reason that it subverts rational decision making on the part of officials. That much is the same everywhere. The fact that there is "bad" bribery in some relationship-based cultures does not diminish the fact that it's undesirable. People there may put up with it because they just need to get things done, much like the way we put up with the legal and patent system here. What the kid did in this case regarding the MacBook Air would likely be considered bribery in any country. It is clearly an exchange of goods in return for services rendered.

Tichy 17y ago
I hope this gets not turned on it's head and we are supposed to be sorry for the guy because he seems to be "socially challenged". He is general being described as a smart guy, it seems safe to assume that he knew exactly what he was doing. Also, I wonder how accepted bribes really are in some cultures. My guess is that bribes exist in certain cultures because their policies put people into power and give them the chance to ask for bribes. I don't think the people having to do the bribing particularly like it, but they can't help it because the other people are in power. It's maybe more a sign of a defunct legal system than of cultural attitudes.

radu_floricica 17y ago

> That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. Oh how much I wish it was a matter of legality. Unfortunately it's a matter of culture, which is a lot harder to change.