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I don't think it's a fundamental personality trait. Bribery is common in certain countries. Do you think it's because the people in such countries have differ

by pg 17y ago

I don't think it's a fundamental personality trait. Bribery is common in certain countries. Do you think it's because the people in such countries have different fundamental personality traits? Seems more likely this sort of thing is largely determined by the situation. The kid may have just gotten carried away by the power he suddenly found himself holding.

cglee 17y ago
Let's say honesty is a fundamental personality trait. One can be honest and bribe in a country where bribery is accepted. That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. It's not the act of bribing that determines one's personality trait - it's the honesty.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- nostrademons 17y ago
  I don't really think honesty is a fundamental personality trait either. Consider that in polite adult society, there're many times that you are expected to lie, and it's considered rude if you don't. If a women asks, "Do I look fat?", do you say yes? If someone asks you "How are you?", do you go on about how your life sucks and you wish you had their job? It's more that there are certain culturally-dependent rules of behavior, and considerate people eventually learn and conform to those rules. Oftentimes the rules make zero sense in logical terms; they evolved through long years of accumulated customs. Most teenagers are still learning those rules, and part of learning them involves breaking them. Didn't you ever push the boundaries as a teenager? Do something that perhaps your parents and other authority figures disapproved of?
  - cglee 17y ago
    I was just commenting on how it could be possible that accepting bribery in one country, but not in another doesn't imply a different fundamental personality trait, as was assumed in the example.
- baguasquirrel 17y ago
  Even that is actually rather blurry. There's a difference between gift-giving (and accompanying smalltalk) to build relationships, and gift-giving to get one's way. Understand that the former (gift-giving to build relationships) is designed to artificially create a high cost of entry to any new relationship so that people are discouraged from making bad deals (or otherwise behaving unethically). The latter (gift-giving in exchange for services) is generally not accepted for the simple reason that it subverts rational decision making on the part of officials. That much is the same everywhere. The fact that there is "bad" bribery in some relationship-based cultures does not diminish the fact that it's undesirable. People there may put up with it because they just need to get things done, much like the way we put up with the legal and patent system here. What the kid did in this case regarding the MacBook Air would likely be considered bribery in any country. It is clearly an exchange of goods in return for services rendered.
  - Tichy 17y ago
    I hope this gets not turned on it's head and we are supposed to be sorry for the guy because he seems to be "socially challenged". He is general being described as a smart guy, it seems safe to assume that he knew exactly what he was doing. Also, I wonder how accepted bribes really are in some cultures. My guess is that bribes exist in certain cultures because their policies put people into power and give them the chance to ask for bribes. I don't think the people having to do the bribing particularly like it, but they can't help it because the other people are in power. It's maybe more a sign of a defunct legal system than of cultural attitudes.
- radu_floricica 17y ago
  > That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. Oh how much I wish it was a matter of legality. Unfortunately it's a matter of culture, which is a lot harder to change.
electromagnetic 17y ago
So bribery is okay in 'certain' countries, so it's okay in this one where there's well established laws dating back centuries that outlaw it? Bullshit, the guys a criminal. He took bribes and he should be driven out of the industry like the parasite he is. He's young, I'll give him that. He should have been working harder than anyone to maintain his integrity and an image of maturity, but he wasn't he was trying to take advantage of people. He's a rat, through and through. It's so clear by his mixergy interview that he has no intent to admit his behavior was abhorrent.
- pc 17y ago
  He took bribes and he should be driven out of the industry like the parasite he is. He's a rat, through and through. It's actually a different kind of person that's an unfortunate presence in online tech debates.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
philk 17y ago
The fundamental personality trait is lower level; ie risk aversion. Daniel is probably not very risk averse and hence this looked like a great opportunity. Giving people who do this a thorough and public flogging is a great thing, however, as it'll help keep future Daniels in line.
rythie 17y ago
In a lot of countries bribery is necessary on a daily basis, otherwise government officials can take literally hours to carry out simple requests. It seems to occur when the person carrying out gets very little pay verses the value of the service they carry out to people using the service. For instance, it's quite common on land border crossings between developing countries to have to pay $2/3 for your passport to be checked, but that money only goes in the guy's pockets. It might not sound like a lot, but when you consider their daily wage may only be $10-15 and there are 100s of people crossing everyday, it works out quite well I'd expect. If you don't pay it might take them 30mins or more to check your passport or they find some minor problem and send you back wasting several days of your valuable time. Mostly in the cases I've seen in developing countries, is that you just bribing someone so they will actually do their job properly.
richcollins 17y ago
Violent behavior is also a fundamental personality trait. Just because someone controls their violent tendencies in one environment vs another, doesn't mean that they aren't a violent person. It's more likely that the job attracted him because it put him in a position where he could accept bribes. This is analogous to the attraction of pedophiles to the priesthood.

by pg 17y ago

cglee 17y ago

Let's say honesty is a fundamental personality trait. One can be honest and bribe in a country where bribery is accepted. That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. It's not the act of bribing that determines one's personality trait - it's the honesty.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
nostrademons 17y ago
I don't really think honesty is a fundamental personality trait either. Consider that in polite adult society, there're many times that you are expected to lie, and it's considered rude if you don't. If a women asks, "Do I look fat?", do you say yes? If someone asks you "How are you?", do you go on about how your life sucks and you wish you had their job? It's more that there are certain culturally-dependent rules of behavior, and considerate people eventually learn and conform to those rules. Oftentimes the rules make zero sense in logical terms; they evolved through long years of accumulated customs. Most teenagers are still learning those rules, and part of learning them involves breaking them. Didn't you ever push the boundaries as a teenager? Do something that perhaps your parents and other authority figures disapproved of?
- cglee 17y ago
  I was just commenting on how it could be possible that accepting bribery in one country, but not in another doesn't imply a different fundamental personality trait, as was assumed in the example.
baguasquirrel 17y ago
Even that is actually rather blurry. There's a difference between gift-giving (and accompanying smalltalk) to build relationships, and gift-giving to get one's way. Understand that the former (gift-giving to build relationships) is designed to artificially create a high cost of entry to any new relationship so that people are discouraged from making bad deals (or otherwise behaving unethically). The latter (gift-giving in exchange for services) is generally not accepted for the simple reason that it subverts rational decision making on the part of officials. That much is the same everywhere. The fact that there is "bad" bribery in some relationship-based cultures does not diminish the fact that it's undesirable. People there may put up with it because they just need to get things done, much like the way we put up with the legal and patent system here. What the kid did in this case regarding the MacBook Air would likely be considered bribery in any country. It is clearly an exchange of goods in return for services rendered.
- Tichy 17y ago
  I hope this gets not turned on it's head and we are supposed to be sorry for the guy because he seems to be "socially challenged". He is general being described as a smart guy, it seems safe to assume that he knew exactly what he was doing. Also, I wonder how accepted bribes really are in some cultures. My guess is that bribes exist in certain cultures because their policies put people into power and give them the chance to ask for bribes. I don't think the people having to do the bribing particularly like it, but they can't help it because the other people are in power. It's maybe more a sign of a defunct legal system than of cultural attitudes.
radu_floricica 17y ago
> That same person wouldn't in a country where bribery is illegal. Oh how much I wish it was a matter of legality. Unfortunately it's a matter of culture, which is a lot harder to change.

electromagnetic 17y ago

So bribery is okay in 'certain' countries, so it's okay in this one where there's well established laws dating back centuries that outlaw it? Bullshit, the guys a criminal. He took bribes and he should be driven out of the industry like the parasite he is. He's young, I'll give him that. He should have been working harder than anyone to maintain his integrity and an image of maturity, but he wasn't he was trying to take advantage of people. He's a rat, through and through. It's so clear by his mixergy interview that he has no intent to admit his behavior was abhorrent.

pc 17y ago
He took bribes and he should be driven out of the industry like the parasite he is. He's a rat, through and through. It's actually a different kind of person that's an unfortunate presence in online tech debates.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

philk 17y ago

The fundamental personality trait is lower level; ie risk aversion. Daniel is probably not very risk averse and hence this looked like a great opportunity. Giving people who do this a thorough and public flogging is a great thing, however, as it'll help keep future Daniels in line.

rythie 17y ago

In a lot of countries bribery is necessary on a daily basis, otherwise government officials can take literally hours to carry out simple requests. It seems to occur when the person carrying out gets very little pay verses the value of the service they carry out to people using the service. For instance, it's quite common on land border crossings between developing countries to have to pay $2/3 for your passport to be checked, but that money only goes in the guy's pockets. It might not sound like a lot, but when you consider their daily wage may only be $10-15 and there are 100s of people crossing everyday, it works out quite well I'd expect. If you don't pay it might take them 30mins or more to check your passport or they find some minor problem and send you back wasting several days of your valuable time. Mostly in the cases I've seen in developing countries, is that you just bribing someone so they will actually do their job properly.

richcollins 17y ago

Violent behavior is also a fundamental personality trait. Just because someone controls their violent tendencies in one environment vs another, doesn't mean that they aren't a violent person. It's more likely that the job attracted him because it put him in a position where he could accept bribes. This is analogous to the attraction of pedophiles to the priesthood.