5 ms·

I don't think appliance computing institutes a disconnect between what hackers and non-hackers compute on. I actually think the opposite is true but that the to

I don't think appliance computing institutes a disconnect between what hackers and non-hackers compute on. I actually think the opposite is true but that the tools aren't here just yet to support that conjecture.

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
Very true. I'm sure there will be some power apps made for the iPad. It's definitely doable for us to work on the "watered down" machines, but I think the problem lies in the fact that "normals" have been working on the difficult machines. We can create what we want. The "normals" cannot. The "normals" need someone to champion them, kind of like a PC Messiah who will save them from the shitshow that is Windows and difficult computing.
pg 17y ago
All you really need is a scary "programmer mode" on the iPad that lets you be root. Does anyone have any guess as to whether Apple will allow that? Presumably if you could be root you'd be able to get around whatever horrible drm they're planning for iPad as paywall on the client. Does that mean they'd never allow it?
- greendestiny 17y ago
  They've never allowed it on the iphone/ipod touch. Thats what jailbreaking gives you.
  - pg 17y ago
    Yeah, but it could be because they assume no one would want to do development on such small devices. Whereas it might actually be optimal to develop some iPad apps on the iPad. I should just ask the guys at Apple...
    - greendestiny 17y ago
      There might eventually be XCode for the iPad, but I doubt it'll come with root access. Apple doesn't want people developing apps that require root access to run, that would circumvent their entire model. Anyway I suspect the current iPad hardware would have a hard time compiling anything. No doubt if Apple did make XCode for the iPad it would require an Apple developer license to run. What they seem very keen to avoid is having a cheap compiler or virtual machine or interpreter on the platform that lets people download code and circumvent the App Store. I doubt that they are against people developing on the platform for its own sake.
    - grinich 17y ago
      I think the key would be whether Apple engineers would prefer to develop on iPad. That, or a shift in the way iPad/iPhone apps are developed.
    - netcan 17y ago
      Do you really think there is good reason to develop on handhelds or do you just think that solving this problem might be a good way of unexpectedly solving other problems?
- jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
  I doubt they're going to allow it. Doesn't matter, since the device will probably be jailbroken rather fast and some dev tools are already out there as iPhone apps. I remember having terminal pre app store days on iPhone v1 when I jailbroke it. I think jailbreaking on the iPad is going to be a very interesting thing. Jailbreaking your phone was kind of a scary proposition because you'd lose your phone if it got bricked and not be able to get the $200-$300 subsidy on replacement,etc. With the iPad, the worst case is going and buying the equivalent of another computer at the same price.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
- jerf 17y ago
  You say "root", but do you mean, "root"? There's a difference between "more access that permits development" and root. I want to be root. When it comes to deciding what code runs on my system, I want to be the final decider. I want to be real root, not sandboxed root. See: PS3 Linux. I suspect the Apple of today would give us sandboxed root and tell us to like it or get bent.
  - pg 17y ago
    I meant real root. It's a bummer to think Apple could get away with giving people sandboxed root, but maybe they could.
    - DougBTX 17y ago
      What's the difference between "sandboxed root" and the access they allow (registered) developers at the moment?
- jhancock 17y ago
  I like the rational in this new RFS but don't like the idea of building a biz that gives 30% to Apple and lets them cut me off anytime they wish.
  - pg 17y ago
    You don't have to assume that. Maybe the biggest company that grows off the iPad will be one that merely uses an iPad app to acquire users for something else. Plus, is it better to make $10 and give $3 to Apple or make $5 and keep all of it? Being at their mercy is a little more worrying. But if you had enough users you'd be much less at their mercy.
    - jhancock 17y ago
      I don't have a problem with paying a business partner 30% if it makes sense. In the past, I built a business where I only had one client, IBM...they sold my app frameworks into their clients...big honkin' enterprise deals. They dictated the terms at all times. Life was good for a few years, but the party did end. My issue with Apple isn't how much they want for their cut, its that there is no choice...only one market, they control all the terms.
  - ShabbyDoo 17y ago
    It may be that Apple factors that 30% into its pricing decisions and ends up with a razors & razorblades model, at least to some degree. This could be a huge net positive for developers because of the expanded market.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

Very true. I'm sure there will be some power apps made for the iPad. It's definitely doable for us to work on the "watered down" machines, but I think the problem lies in the fact that "normals" have been working on the difficult machines. We can create what we want. The "normals" cannot. The "normals" need someone to champion them, kind of like a PC Messiah who will save them from the shitshow that is Windows and difficult computing.

pg 17y ago

All you really need is a scary "programmer mode" on the iPad that lets you be root. Does anyone have any guess as to whether Apple will allow that? Presumably if you could be root you'd be able to get around whatever horrible drm they're planning for iPad as paywall on the client. Does that mean they'd never allow it?

greendestiny 17y ago
They've never allowed it on the iphone/ipod touch. Thats what jailbreaking gives you.
- pg 17y ago
  Yeah, but it could be because they assume no one would want to do development on such small devices. Whereas it might actually be optimal to develop some iPad apps on the iPad. I should just ask the guys at Apple...
  - greendestiny 17y ago
    There might eventually be XCode for the iPad, but I doubt it'll come with root access. Apple doesn't want people developing apps that require root access to run, that would circumvent their entire model. Anyway I suspect the current iPad hardware would have a hard time compiling anything. No doubt if Apple did make XCode for the iPad it would require an Apple developer license to run. What they seem very keen to avoid is having a cheap compiler or virtual machine or interpreter on the platform that lets people download code and circumvent the App Store. I doubt that they are against people developing on the platform for its own sake.
  - grinich 17y ago
    I think the key would be whether Apple engineers would prefer to develop on iPad. That, or a shift in the way iPad/iPhone apps are developed.
  - netcan 17y ago
    Do you really think there is good reason to develop on handhelds or do you just think that solving this problem might be a good way of unexpectedly solving other problems?
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
I doubt they're going to allow it. Doesn't matter, since the device will probably be jailbroken rather fast and some dev tools are already out there as iPhone apps. I remember having terminal pre app store days on iPhone v1 when I jailbroke it. I think jailbreaking on the iPad is going to be a very interesting thing. Jailbreaking your phone was kind of a scary proposition because you'd lose your phone if it got bricked and not be able to get the $200-$300 subsidy on replacement,etc. With the iPad, the worst case is going and buying the equivalent of another computer at the same price.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
jerf 17y ago
You say "root", but do you mean, "root"? There's a difference between "more access that permits development" and root. I want to be root. When it comes to deciding what code runs on my system, I want to be the final decider. I want to be real root, not sandboxed root. See: PS3 Linux. I suspect the Apple of today would give us sandboxed root and tell us to like it or get bent.
- pg 17y ago
  I meant real root. It's a bummer to think Apple could get away with giving people sandboxed root, but maybe they could.
  - DougBTX 17y ago
    What's the difference between "sandboxed root" and the access they allow (registered) developers at the moment?
jhancock 17y ago
I like the rational in this new RFS but don't like the idea of building a biz that gives 30% to Apple and lets them cut me off anytime they wish.
- pg 17y ago
  You don't have to assume that. Maybe the biggest company that grows off the iPad will be one that merely uses an iPad app to acquire users for something else. Plus, is it better to make $10 and give $3 to Apple or make $5 and keep all of it? Being at their mercy is a little more worrying. But if you had enough users you'd be much less at their mercy.
  - jhancock 17y ago
    I don't have a problem with paying a business partner 30% if it makes sense. In the past, I built a business where I only had one client, IBM...they sold my app frameworks into their clients...big honkin' enterprise deals. They dictated the terms at all times. Life was good for a few years, but the party did end. My issue with Apple isn't how much they want for their cut, its that there is no choice...only one market, they control all the terms.
- ShabbyDoo 17y ago
  It may be that Apple factors that 30% into its pricing decisions and ends up with a razors & razorblades model, at least to some degree. This could be a huge net positive for developers because of the expanded market.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]