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> I can't think of any profession where the demands to compensation ratio is so out of whack Teacher is one that immediately comes to mind. Nurse? Probably. So

by untog 11y ago

> I can't think of any profession where the demands to compensation ratio is so out of whack Teacher is one that immediately comes to mind. Nurse? Probably. Soldier? If you're deployed, certainly. I don't think software engineers actually have that high a level of demand, on the whole. Don't get me wrong, many lead very stressful lives but a great many are also coddled with free food and amenities in their office, babysitting relatively static code. Then they go home to their comfortable apartments with smartphone app controlled lights.

dmix 11y ago
Plus every year what we do becomes more and more critical to society. I believe pay will continue to rise. Especially the top precentile. Another HN article mentioned that top AI researchers get offers comparable to NFL quarterbacks.
Touche 11y ago
Yeah I sort of disagree, but first let me say that I do not think we have it terrible, or that we have the toughest job. What I'm (inelegantly) describing is vs. perception. I don't think people get into the jobs you mentioned for money. Whereas I feel there is this perception that Software Engineer is an elite level paying job, similar to doctors and lawyers. And I disagree on this; we are (not all of us, I know there are plenty of clock in-and-out engineering jobs) expected to invent new things on an almost daily basis. I can't think of any other job where you judged based on the number of widgets you produce where you are also expected, again -- almost daily, to produce new types of widgets (that are only vaguely speced for you). When I think of jobs where people are expected to create new things; I think of architects, fashion designers, and the like.
- burger_moon 11y ago
  Machinists, welders, carpenters, trade jobs in general come to mind when I read your statement.
  - untog 11y ago
    And, to be honest, teachers again. "Here's a curriculum (specs), make a series of lessons (product)".
    - MustardTiger 11y ago
      You mean "here's a curriculum, download the lessons and tests".
johan_larson 11y ago
Nurses? They average $69K per year, and need 2-4 years of education. 90th percentile salary is $97K (presumably for people in expensive areas, or pulling a lot of overtime). That doesn't seem out of line. My mom was a nurse, and the thing I noticed about her work was that when she was off duty, she was off duty. Since she was not ultimately responsible for any patient's care, at the end of shift she could just walk out and leave it all behind. If they needed her after that, she got overtime at time-and-a-half, I think. And she got a bit of pay when she was on call, too. http://work.chron.com/much-registered-nurses-paid-year-6869.html http://work.chron.com/much-registered-nurses-paid-year-6869....
MustardTiger 11y ago
>Teacher is one that immediately comes to mind. Nurse? Probably. Soldier? If you're deployed, certainly. No, no and yes. Teaching is an incredibly easy job, you barely have to do anything, and you get paid very well. Nursing is more stressful, but still pays quite well.
- untog 11y ago
  I think you very much underestimate the job of being a teacher. Do you know any? I do. Their jobs do not seem easy. Could you control a room of 25 inner city teenagers and get them interested in algebra?
  - MustardTiger 11y ago
    I think you very much overestimate it. Yes, I know several. Their jobs are essentially babysitters. Getting paid $80k/year to put snow pants on kids for recess and then take them off again after, and tell them what books to read is an incredibly cushy gig.
    - untog 11y ago
      > Getting paid $80/year to put snow pants on kids for recess and then take them off again after, and tell them what books to read So you're talking elementary school teacher, then. An absolute world of difference away from high school teaching.
      - MustardTiger 11y ago
        You just said "teacher". You are suggesting that a profession is difficult and underpaid, and "teacher" is not. If you want to argue just about some specific subset of teachers then make that argument.

by untog 11y ago

dmix 11y ago

Plus every year what we do becomes more and more critical to society. I believe pay will continue to rise. Especially the top precentile. Another HN article mentioned that top AI researchers get offers comparable to NFL quarterbacks.

Touche 11y ago

Yeah I sort of disagree, but first let me say that I do not think we have it terrible, or that we have the toughest job. What I'm (inelegantly) describing is vs. perception. I don't think people get into the jobs you mentioned for money. Whereas I feel there is this perception that Software Engineer is an elite level paying job, similar to doctors and lawyers. And I disagree on this; we are (not all of us, I know there are plenty of clock in-and-out engineering jobs) expected to invent new things on an almost daily basis. I can't think of any other job where you judged based on the number of widgets you produce where you are also expected, again -- almost daily, to produce new types of widgets (that are only vaguely speced for you). When I think of jobs where people are expected to create new things; I think of architects, fashion designers, and the like.

burger_moon 11y ago
Machinists, welders, carpenters, trade jobs in general come to mind when I read your statement.
- untog 11y ago
  And, to be honest, teachers again. "Here's a curriculum (specs), make a series of lessons (product)".
  - MustardTiger 11y ago
    You mean "here's a curriculum, download the lessons and tests".

johan_larson 11y ago

Nurses? They average $69K per year, and need 2-4 years of education. 90th percentile salary is $97K (presumably for people in expensive areas, or pulling a lot of overtime). That doesn't seem out of line. My mom was a nurse, and the thing I noticed about her work was that when she was off duty, she was off duty. Since she was not ultimately responsible for any patient's care, at the end of shift she could just walk out and leave it all behind. If they needed her after that, she got overtime at time-and-a-half, I think. And she got a bit of pay when she was on call, too. http://work.chron.com/much-registered-nurses-paid-year-6869.html http://work.chron.com/much-registered-nurses-paid-year-6869....

MustardTiger 11y ago

>Teacher is one that immediately comes to mind. Nurse? Probably. Soldier? If you're deployed, certainly. No, no and yes. Teaching is an incredibly easy job, you barely have to do anything, and you get paid very well. Nursing is more stressful, but still pays quite well.

untog 11y ago
I think you very much underestimate the job of being a teacher. Do you know any? I do. Their jobs do not seem easy. Could you control a room of 25 inner city teenagers and get them interested in algebra?
- MustardTiger 11y ago
  I think you very much overestimate it. Yes, I know several. Their jobs are essentially babysitters. Getting paid $80k/year to put snow pants on kids for recess and then take them off again after, and tell them what books to read is an incredibly cushy gig.
  - untog 11y ago
    > Getting paid $80/year to put snow pants on kids for recess and then take them off again after, and tell them what books to read So you're talking elementary school teacher, then. An absolute world of difference away from high school teaching.
    - MustardTiger 11y ago
      You just said "teacher". You are suggesting that a profession is difficult and underpaid, and "teacher" is not. If you want to argue just about some specific subset of teachers then make that argument.