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> I'm sure being a brain surgeon is much more stressful and takes longer to achieve, but hey, those people live in neighborhoods I can't afford to go into. Mos

> I'm sure being a brain surgeon is much more stressful and takes longer to achieve, but hey, those people live in neighborhoods I can't afford to go into. Most doctors and lawyers don't make lots of money in comparison to a reasonably well paid software engineer. There are tracks that will lead to bigger bucks (if lucky) where you essentially sell your soul for the chance to get there. Big law firms have "partner track", doctors and lawyers can start their own practice, and various areas in medicine can still be very lucrative (eg, plastic surgery). Those tracks are all super hard. The equivalent for software engineers is starting a company or seeking a high level position at a large, fast-growing company. I agree that software as it exists today will change: more people will come into it, wages will go down in many areas. Smart people that want to make more money will specialize (hopefully choosing the right specialization). As a comparison though, an independent consultant with a reasonably sought after technical specialty can make significantly more money, with less school and regulation, than lawyers or doctors at similar levels. If you start a successful software business (even a tiny ISV with real customers), you can make considerably more than doctors or lawyers, again with less school and regulation. I'm sticking with software!

vemy 10y ago
Almost all doctors will make much more than the vast majority programmers. I think you are underestimating how much doctors earn.
- dave_sullivan 10y ago
  http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Physician_%2f_Doctor%2c_Internal_Medicine/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Physician_%2f_Doctor... http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa... http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2f_Lawyer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2f_Lawyer/... Attorney pay and software engineer pay seem remarkably similar. Physicians earn, on average, double what attorneys and software engineers make. But there's a lot of ways to cut that: engineers can start earning much earlier than physicians can. There is also a much wider gamut in quality, in that some working software engineers are quite bad, but doctors that are quite bad are rightly forced to leave the profession. This arguably skews the average up. Also less ultimate downside risk in software: nobody can take away your right to practice software engineering. If the question is: "Where can I maximize my earning potential: law, medicine, or tech?" I still say tech. I'd also argue all 3 of these jobs are "middle class professions", but tech has the highest upside for anyone branching out on their own (IE, fortune 500 is not filled with practicing doctors and lawyers).
  - Touche 10y ago
    I don't know, I think it's far easier to get into the 300k range as a doctor than as a software engineer. There are 300k doctors in every city in the country, whereas there's probably only a handful of companies where you can make that much as an engineer.
  - freyr 10y ago
    While the average attorney makes a comparable amount to a programmer, the ceiling on attorney pay is much higher. If you work for a reputable law firm in a large city, you can expect to make $150,000 base, with significant raises annually until the eighth year when it levels out, usually around $250k+ base. If you then make partner, you can of course make much more, e.g. 600k+. Or you can become corporate counsel, and seven figure compensation is not unheard of. This might not represent the "average" attorney, but there really isn't a comparable track to take as programmer while maintaining the title "programmer." Regarding physician pay, you cited the average salary of an internist. There are many specialties (orthopedic surgery, cardiology, urology, dermatology, radiology, etc.) that earn far more on average.
    - dave_sullivan 10y ago
      FWIW, software engineer track (admittedly mostly limited to SF bay area): Intern/Freelancer: ~80k p/ year --> Engineer/Consultant: ~150k p/year --> CTO/CEO: ~250k p/year --> post-acquisition or (better yet) profitable founder: $500k-$10M+ p/year. Sample sizes get smaller and smaller as you go up the scale. To be fair, you're no longer "programmer", but "attorney" can mean so many things at this point, it's almost more like saying "working in tech industry".
      - vemy 10y ago
        Even in the Bay Area, I think this track would be an extreme exception rather than the rule. And the Bay area itself is somewhat of an exception. Vast majority of programmers in this country live outside the Bay Area. Another consideration is that 150K in the Bay Area hardly goes as far as 150K in other locations.
- freyr 10y ago
  A non-specialist physician apparently makes, on average, $195k/year total compensation [1]. This is, as you say, much higher than what the compensation of the vast majority of programmers. While salaries in the Bay Area can be comparable, a doctor's compensation of $195k in Ohio or North Carolina or is equivalent to about $350k the Bay Area. Specialists earn $284k according to a national average, with some specialties earning far more. There's really no comparison in what the typical programmer makes versus a doctor, corporate lawyer, investment banker, etc. But those fields are generally much harder to break into, and working conditions can be much worse early on in one's career. [1] http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015/public/overview#page=2 http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015...
  - base698 10y ago
    Just met a doctor who owns three planes all worth more than $200k, one was $500k. My wife used to audit doctors in NC and some of them pulled $1 million a year net. The plane guy is not a specialist and one of the NC doctors was a podiatrist. They have lots of opportunities for outside income on top of the peasant level $200k. Speaking and consulting and taking bribes from pharma.

vemy 10y ago

Almost all doctors will make much more than the vast majority programmers. I think you are underestimating how much doctors earn.

dave_sullivan 10y ago
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Physician_%2f_Doctor%2c_Internal_Medicine/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Physician_%2f_Doctor... http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa... http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2f_Lawyer/Salary http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2f_Lawyer/... Attorney pay and software engineer pay seem remarkably similar. Physicians earn, on average, double what attorneys and software engineers make. But there's a lot of ways to cut that: engineers can start earning much earlier than physicians can. There is also a much wider gamut in quality, in that some working software engineers are quite bad, but doctors that are quite bad are rightly forced to leave the profession. This arguably skews the average up. Also less ultimate downside risk in software: nobody can take away your right to practice software engineering. If the question is: "Where can I maximize my earning potential: law, medicine, or tech?" I still say tech. I'd also argue all 3 of these jobs are "middle class professions", but tech has the highest upside for anyone branching out on their own (IE, fortune 500 is not filled with practicing doctors and lawyers).
- Touche 10y ago
  I don't know, I think it's far easier to get into the 300k range as a doctor than as a software engineer. There are 300k doctors in every city in the country, whereas there's probably only a handful of companies where you can make that much as an engineer.
- freyr 10y ago
  While the average attorney makes a comparable amount to a programmer, the ceiling on attorney pay is much higher. If you work for a reputable law firm in a large city, you can expect to make $150,000 base, with significant raises annually until the eighth year when it levels out, usually around $250k+ base. If you then make partner, you can of course make much more, e.g. 600k+. Or you can become corporate counsel, and seven figure compensation is not unheard of. This might not represent the "average" attorney, but there really isn't a comparable track to take as programmer while maintaining the title "programmer." Regarding physician pay, you cited the average salary of an internist. There are many specialties (orthopedic surgery, cardiology, urology, dermatology, radiology, etc.) that earn far more on average.
  - dave_sullivan 10y ago
    FWIW, software engineer track (admittedly mostly limited to SF bay area): Intern/Freelancer: ~80k p/ year --> Engineer/Consultant: ~150k p/year --> CTO/CEO: ~250k p/year --> post-acquisition or (better yet) profitable founder: $500k-$10M+ p/year. Sample sizes get smaller and smaller as you go up the scale. To be fair, you're no longer "programmer", but "attorney" can mean so many things at this point, it's almost more like saying "working in tech industry".
    - vemy 10y ago
      Even in the Bay Area, I think this track would be an extreme exception rather than the rule. And the Bay area itself is somewhat of an exception. Vast majority of programmers in this country live outside the Bay Area. Another consideration is that 150K in the Bay Area hardly goes as far as 150K in other locations.
freyr 10y ago
A non-specialist physician apparently makes, on average, $195k/year total compensation [1]. This is, as you say, much higher than what the compensation of the vast majority of programmers. While salaries in the Bay Area can be comparable, a doctor's compensation of $195k in Ohio or North Carolina or is equivalent to about $350k the Bay Area. Specialists earn $284k according to a national average, with some specialties earning far more. There's really no comparison in what the typical programmer makes versus a doctor, corporate lawyer, investment banker, etc. But those fields are generally much harder to break into, and working conditions can be much worse early on in one's career. [1] http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015/public/overview#page=2 http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/compensation/2015...
- base698 10y ago
  Just met a doctor who owns three planes all worth more than $200k, one was $500k. My wife used to audit doctors in NC and some of them pulled $1 million a year net. The plane guy is not a specialist and one of the NC doctors was a podiatrist. They have lots of opportunities for outside income on top of the peasant level $200k. Speaking and consulting and taking bribes from pharma.