4 ms·

This is one of the few areas of customer-protection where I disagree with the EU. If mobile carriers are colluding to set unreasonable roaming charges then pro

This is one of the few areas of customer-protection where I disagree with the EU. If mobile carriers are colluding to set unreasonable roaming charges then prosecute that as a cartel. But the EU has no business establishing actual call and data charges. As a result of their intervention they indirectly increase domestic mobile rates for all the people who aren't roaming. The mobile firms can just increase domestic rates to compensate for lower roaming revenues.

fit2rule 11y ago
As someone who lives and travels in the EU and has had more than enough of this bill shock, I'm all for this regulation - it was clear that the arbitrary border charges were being used (in the smaller EU states) as a way to gouge customers. If the mobile providers continue to gouge customers by just transferring the costs to domestic billing, then that is something that the EU should also address, and as a subject of EU regulations in this regard, I'm all for it.
- masklinn 11y ago
  > If the mobile providers continue to gouge customers by just transferring the costs to domestic billing, then that is something that the EU should also address I doubt that'll be necessary, "local" prices are something users can and do check when comparing offers. The roaming issue comes from roaming info usually being small footnotes, most consumers not thinking about the subject (and not considering they'd need it) and needs changing, most people didn't really need data roaming a few years ago, things are markedly different with the "always connected" smartphones. Basically, roaming prices were a place where MSPs could safely gouge a small fraction of consumers (and make them feel bad for it) without much risk of building up a big protest movement. Most of them apparently didn't see or refused to act on the winds changing, and thus the EU hammer coming down on the practice.
  - dingaling 11y ago
    > The roaming issue comes from roaming info usually being small footnotes, most consumers not thinking about the subject (and not considering they'd need it ) Then the EU should set standards for roaming advertising and contracts, not dictate the price. I can't think of any other domain of business where a Western national or supra-national government set privte-sector prices because customers can't be trusted to read T&Cs. Car rental contracts often have horrific small-print penalties for crossing intra-European state boundaries, but I don't see the EU intervening there.
    - fit2rule 11y ago
      >I can't think of any other domain of business where a Western national or supra-national government set privte-sector prices because customers can't be trusted to read T&Cs. Example: California, fixing prices of electricity within the state. (not a good example, but one you should probably be aware of as it supports your argument while also giving you a clue that its not just the naughty euro-socialists doing these sorts of things..) Anyway the EU are not setting prices because customers don't read T&C's. They're setting prices because their citizens get royally screwed by price gouging, whether they read the T&C or not, and its a serious economic issue in a region where cross-border travel is significantly higher than in any other part of the world. Its one thing to assume that the EU is exerting some sort of fascist power over the free market and ruining it. Its another thing entirely when the EU actually does its job and protects the subjects of its member states from predatory business practices... but I guess this is an economics argument about the free market and capitalism, which I fear is not one you and I are about to form consensus. I'm quite happy for the telecom's to be getting their comeuppance in this market - the gouging is really, really heinous. For those of us who have to live here and work within the EU framework, this is exactly the sort of thing the EU is good for...
vanderZwan 11y ago
> As a result of their intervention they indirectly increase domestic mobile rates for all the people who aren't roaming. You assume that operators are already working in the margins, which is far from the case. EDIT: Also, this will encourage phone networks to seek internationally partnerships to share costs, which is in line with the whole "transnational project" part of the European Union actively striving it strives for an actual European Union.
mrob 11y ago
If the mobile carriers could somehow build their own private wireless spectrum then I'd have no problem with them charging whatever they liked. As it is, their whole existence is based around exploiting a public resource. It seems fair that they're required to prioritize benefit to the public.
TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
>they indirectly increase domestic mobile rates for all the people who aren't roaming. Many of the carriers are pan-European anyway, with local branding. So the concept of a "domestic rate" is already an anachronism. Roaming users were being gouged because they could be. Now they won't be gouged any more, and that's entirely a good thing.
danrisso3 11y ago
At least in the UK, they could and did. My rate was doubled from 2p per minute to 4p per minute, to "harmonize" with the roaming legislation. My domestic rate increased to 15p per minute. Other friends who are on pay-as-you-go report similar changes.
matt4077 11y ago
I believe the legitimacy is actually stronger here, since it's (also) based on the non-discrimination and single-market principles. The EU has always been working to make borders in EU irrelevant for people's freedom. Considering the importance of smartphones these days, being effectively cut off from facebook may be one of the most directly felt downsides with leaving your country.
venomsnake 11y ago
Since mobile operators use public resources they could do as they are told or find out when their licences need renewal that they could face very unpleasant regulators. Don't want government intervention - don't use public resources.

fit2rule 11y ago

As someone who lives and travels in the EU and has had more than enough of this bill shock, I'm all for this regulation - it was clear that the arbitrary border charges were being used (in the smaller EU states) as a way to gouge customers. If the mobile providers continue to gouge customers by just transferring the costs to domestic billing, then that is something that the EU should also address, and as a subject of EU regulations in this regard, I'm all for it.

masklinn 11y ago
> If the mobile providers continue to gouge customers by just transferring the costs to domestic billing, then that is something that the EU should also address I doubt that'll be necessary, "local" prices are something users can and do check when comparing offers. The roaming issue comes from roaming info usually being small footnotes, most consumers not thinking about the subject (and not considering they'd need it) and needs changing, most people didn't really need data roaming a few years ago, things are markedly different with the "always connected" smartphones. Basically, roaming prices were a place where MSPs could safely gouge a small fraction of consumers (and make them feel bad for it) without much risk of building up a big protest movement. Most of them apparently didn't see or refused to act on the winds changing, and thus the EU hammer coming down on the practice.
- dingaling 11y ago
  > The roaming issue comes from roaming info usually being small footnotes, most consumers not thinking about the subject (and not considering they'd need it ) Then the EU should set standards for roaming advertising and contracts, not dictate the price. I can't think of any other domain of business where a Western national or supra-national government set privte-sector prices because customers can't be trusted to read T&Cs. Car rental contracts often have horrific small-print penalties for crossing intra-European state boundaries, but I don't see the EU intervening there.
  - fit2rule 11y ago
    >I can't think of any other domain of business where a Western national or supra-national government set privte-sector prices because customers can't be trusted to read T&Cs. Example: California, fixing prices of electricity within the state. (not a good example, but one you should probably be aware of as it supports your argument while also giving you a clue that its not just the naughty euro-socialists doing these sorts of things..) Anyway the EU are not setting prices because customers don't read T&C's. They're setting prices because their citizens get royally screwed by price gouging, whether they read the T&C or not, and its a serious economic issue in a region where cross-border travel is significantly higher than in any other part of the world. Its one thing to assume that the EU is exerting some sort of fascist power over the free market and ruining it. Its another thing entirely when the EU actually does its job and protects the subjects of its member states from predatory business practices... but I guess this is an economics argument about the free market and capitalism, which I fear is not one you and I are about to form consensus. I'm quite happy for the telecom's to be getting their comeuppance in this market - the gouging is really, really heinous. For those of us who have to live here and work within the EU framework, this is exactly the sort of thing the EU is good for...

vanderZwan 11y ago

> As a result of their intervention they indirectly increase domestic mobile rates for all the people who aren't roaming. You assume that operators are already working in the margins, which is far from the case. EDIT: Also, this will encourage phone networks to seek internationally partnerships to share costs, which is in line with the whole "transnational project" part of the European Union actively striving it strives for an actual European Union.

mrob 11y ago

If the mobile carriers could somehow build their own private wireless spectrum then I'd have no problem with them charging whatever they liked. As it is, their whole existence is based around exploiting a public resource. It seems fair that they're required to prioritize benefit to the public.

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago

>they indirectly increase domestic mobile rates for all the people who aren't roaming. Many of the carriers are pan-European anyway, with local branding. So the concept of a "domestic rate" is already an anachronism. Roaming users were being gouged because they could be. Now they won't be gouged any more, and that's entirely a good thing.

danrisso3 11y ago

At least in the UK, they could and did. My rate was doubled from 2p per minute to 4p per minute, to "harmonize" with the roaming legislation. My domestic rate increased to 15p per minute. Other friends who are on pay-as-you-go report similar changes.

matt4077 11y ago

I believe the legitimacy is actually stronger here, since it's (also) based on the non-discrimination and single-market principles. The EU has always been working to make borders in EU irrelevant for people's freedom. Considering the importance of smartphones these days, being effectively cut off from facebook may be one of the most directly felt downsides with leaving your country.

venomsnake 11y ago

Since mobile operators use public resources they could do as they are told or find out when their licences need renewal that they could face very unpleasant regulators. Don't want government intervention - don't use public resources.