5 ms·

You have a misunderstanding of what is going on. Hello, for instance, is not some sort of project is draining resources and/or bloating firefox. It is essential

by nwah1 11y ago

You have a misunderstanding of what is going on. Hello, for instance, is not some sort of project is draining resources and/or bloating firefox. It is essentially a WebRTC demonstration. Since WebRTC is a technology that needs to be implemented anyways, and is worth promoting, Hello becomes very interesting. It is basically just a little bit of javascript that runs on top of all the WebRTC code that they'd have to build anyways. Trying to do cross-platform screensharing, for instance, can be quite a hassle, but this will allow it to be done all without any sort of plugins, or any need for TeamViewer, GotoMeeting, etc. And as for XUL and XPCOM, they've already been moving away from it internally for years. It is horrible. Talk about bloat and security problems. And they already are needing to rewrite their APIs for things like Electrolysis, which I assume we want. So why not actually do a good job with the rewrite? The ultimate goal is to have the UI based on web standards (browser.html). This will reduce bloat and reduce the attack surface. And the UI will only get more customizable as a result.

nathancahill 11y ago
> the UI will only get more customizable as a result. It's not the UI, it's the APIs behind powerful addons like Firebug that made Firefox the browser that it is. Those powerful APIs are going, going, gone.
- clouddrover 11y ago
  Firebug 3 integrates with Firefox's native DevTools so you'll still have Firebug (or you can just use Firefox's DevTools without Firebug if you want): https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/10/firebug-devtools-integration/ https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/10/firebug-devtools-integrati...
  - nathancahill 11y ago
    Firebug isn't what's at stake here. It's the level of API access to browser internals that allowed things like Firebug to be built.
    - clouddrover 11y ago
      I don't think you need to be worried. If some feature is missing from the new API then get involved with the development and get the feature added. That's what add-on authors are doing (see my other comment).
knight17 11y ago
The capability of addons are being gutted in the name of progress. The new trend towards addons as a toolbar button started by Google Chrome has been disastrous. Extensions like Vimperator/Pentadactyl, that makes deep changes to the way Firefox operate would not be possible under the new system. I think they don't know who their ideal users are any more. It feels like Mozilla has no imagination left. In the browser space I can see Chrome following its ideals and moving ahead. Recently Vivaldi has been making great strides with original thinking on what a browser should be. Oh, and Mozilla? We'll ape Chrome here and there and loose our identity and alienate our users. If I want Chrome, I would use it myself, I don't want bits and pieces of Chrome in something I've been using long before Chrome came. Copy features and implement them like how Android and iOS copy each other; they keep their core identity intact with the changes and features adopted. It is sad. Just look at what Microsoft has been doing to get an addon community like Firefox, and look at Mozilla throwing away all their working addons and the community to the streets.
- callahad 11y ago
  > Extensions like Vimperator/Pentadactyl, that makes deep changes to the way Firefox operate would not be possible under the new system. You're mistaken. Vimperator is explicitly on our list of add-on functionality to support at https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions#Additional_APIs https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions#Additional_APIs, and it has been there since the very early days of the WebExtensions project. Will WebExtensions v1 be ready to handle Vimperator? Absolutely not. But we'll almost assuredly get there before we remove the existing APIs that those add-ons rely on.
  - regecks 11y ago
    That's great to hear. I can't live without Vimperator, and it's really good to see that there's a decent plan in place to keep it (or close substitute) alive.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Will you get all the features Vivaldi has (like customizing everything via settings and addons) before you remove XUL?
CelticGod 11y ago
Mozilla is a serious disappointment. Implementing all what Chrome has and removing all what Firefox has. Including built inside customization features which are available only these days over add-ons. Pretty sure it is again then the users job to create the customization features they want. I can not often say it enough much i despise Mozilla these days.

by nwah1 11y ago

nathancahill 11y ago

> the UI will only get more customizable as a result. It's not the UI, it's the APIs behind powerful addons like Firebug that made Firefox the browser that it is. Those powerful APIs are going, going, gone.

clouddrover 11y ago
Firebug 3 integrates with Firefox's native DevTools so you'll still have Firebug (or you can just use Firefox's DevTools without Firebug if you want): https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/10/firebug-devtools-integration/ https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/10/firebug-devtools-integrati...
- nathancahill 11y ago
  Firebug isn't what's at stake here. It's the level of API access to browser internals that allowed things like Firebug to be built.
  - clouddrover 11y ago
    I don't think you need to be worried. If some feature is missing from the new API then get involved with the development and get the feature added. That's what add-on authors are doing (see my other comment).

knight17 11y ago

The capability of addons are being gutted in the name of progress. The new trend towards addons as a toolbar button started by Google Chrome has been disastrous. Extensions like Vimperator/Pentadactyl, that makes deep changes to the way Firefox operate would not be possible under the new system. I think they don't know who their ideal users are any more. It feels like Mozilla has no imagination left. In the browser space I can see Chrome following its ideals and moving ahead. Recently Vivaldi has been making great strides with original thinking on what a browser should be. Oh, and Mozilla? We'll ape Chrome here and there and loose our identity and alienate our users. If I want Chrome, I would use it myself, I don't want bits and pieces of Chrome in something I've been using long before Chrome came. Copy features and implement them like how Android and iOS copy each other; they keep their core identity intact with the changes and features adopted. It is sad. Just look at what Microsoft has been doing to get an addon community like Firefox, and look at Mozilla throwing away all their working addons and the community to the streets.

callahad 11y ago
> Extensions like Vimperator/Pentadactyl, that makes deep changes to the way Firefox operate would not be possible under the new system. You're mistaken. Vimperator is explicitly on our list of add-on functionality to support at https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions#Additional_APIs https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions#Additional_APIs, and it has been there since the very early days of the WebExtensions project. Will WebExtensions v1 be ready to handle Vimperator? Absolutely not. But we'll almost assuredly get there before we remove the existing APIs that those add-ons rely on.
- regecks 11y ago
  That's great to hear. I can't live without Vimperator, and it's really good to see that there's a decent plan in place to keep it (or close substitute) alive.
- kuschku 11y ago
  Will you get all the features Vivaldi has (like customizing everything via settings and addons) before you remove XUL?

CelticGod 11y ago

Mozilla is a serious disappointment. Implementing all what Chrome has and removing all what Firefox has. Including built inside customization features which are available only these days over add-ons. Pretty sure it is again then the users job to create the customization features they want. I can not often say it enough much i despise Mozilla these days.