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"Another example is the Fetch API"... That API has very limited cross-browser support. One of the largest reasons web frameworks exist is to bridge the gaps bet

"Another example is the Fetch API"... That API has very limited cross-browser support. One of the largest reasons web frameworks exist is to bridge the gaps between browser incompatibilities/offering legacy support. I don't know if this person has even really scaled and deployed a web application that must work across several browsers - especially older browser versions. I always wonder that whenever I see people bashing frameworks. Like the author said, start with asking why the framework was created. Just make sure you come up with the right answer to that question next time.

zxcvcxz 10y ago
Yeah I find it hard to believe that the people who go on about how convoluted web development is actually get paid to do web development. 1) Where are all the people hiring web devs who don't know a single library or framework? 2) Why do huge tech companies like facebook and google develop web frameworks if they're unnecessary?
- takno 10y ago
  Do Google even really use angular? I know none of their core products use it. As to Facebook, their website is painfully slow, seems like it's not a model of the right way to do stuff
  - vhiremath4 10y ago
    Google Developer Console, Doubleclick Platform, Parts of Chromecast including the Chrome Extension, YouTube for PS3 Plenty more. You'll notice that a lot of what is written in Angular by Google tends to be their newer platforms/platforms being re-written while Angular was out/coming out. Older products like GMail are extremely complex and transitioning to a saner, more streamlined way to scale those applications usually stems from necessity, but rest assured they use their own framework (take a look at all the gnarly tags and events bound in GMail). I don't personally use Angular.
  - zxcvcxz 10y ago
    Well fb is fast for me, so is cloudflare, airbnb, Codecademy, Coursera, Docker, Dropbox, IGN, IMDB, Imgur, Instagram, Khan Academy, Netflix, okcupid, and a whole bunch of other websites that use react. Plus I like being employed so knowing frameworks and libraries is a must.
  - sotojuan 10y ago
    I don't think their main website uses React fully yet. Instagram does and that's pretty fast—same as most other well-done React apps.
    - vmasto 10y ago
      Facebook.com contains more than 20,000 react components. They use React at pretty much every dynamic aspect on their website. They also use React Native in a lot of aspects of their mobile apps, both for iOS and android.
- eggy 10y ago
  So your suggesting that if you question the system, you shouldn't get hired, or paid? I don't think he's saying hire web developers who don't use a single library or framework; he's calling for some perspective by looking at the latest state of system. He answered #2 in the very beginning of the article: "React was created to solve the issues Facebook were facing with their massive amount of data, activity and size." "They then went ahead and open-sourced it and released it to the public, where many developers seem to have come to the conclusion that “Facebooks’ solution to their problem is the solution to my problem”. This - in the majority of cases - is not true." I found the article refreshing in that aspect.
  - zxcvcxz 10y ago
    > So your suggesting that if you question the system, you shouldn't get hired, or paid? No, I'm saying people don't typically hire developers who don't know ANY libraries or frameworks. That's reality.
- sgift 10y ago
  > Why do huge tech companies like facebook and google develop web frameworks if they're unnecessary? For the same reason you should write your own "framework": An internal 'framework' is nothing more but a certain way of structuring your code, so that it works for you and your problems, which no one ever argued against. It gets far harder to make that case when you say "well, all my problems can be taken care of by popular framework of the day" - now you can only solve problems well which fit the frameworks model. And if your problem doesn't fit the model you start writing around the framework, so in the end you have written - again - a custom framework, which only in name resembles the one you started with.
bostonvaulter2 10y ago
Also beware that the Fetch API doesn't have support for file upload progress tracking.

zxcvcxz 10y ago

Yeah I find it hard to believe that the people who go on about how convoluted web development is actually get paid to do web development. 1) Where are all the people hiring web devs who don't know a single library or framework? 2) Why do huge tech companies like facebook and google develop web frameworks if they're unnecessary?

takno 10y ago
Do Google even really use angular? I know none of their core products use it. As to Facebook, their website is painfully slow, seems like it's not a model of the right way to do stuff
- vhiremath4 10y ago
  Google Developer Console, Doubleclick Platform, Parts of Chromecast including the Chrome Extension, YouTube for PS3 Plenty more. You'll notice that a lot of what is written in Angular by Google tends to be their newer platforms/platforms being re-written while Angular was out/coming out. Older products like GMail are extremely complex and transitioning to a saner, more streamlined way to scale those applications usually stems from necessity, but rest assured they use their own framework (take a look at all the gnarly tags and events bound in GMail). I don't personally use Angular.
- zxcvcxz 10y ago
  Well fb is fast for me, so is cloudflare, airbnb, Codecademy, Coursera, Docker, Dropbox, IGN, IMDB, Imgur, Instagram, Khan Academy, Netflix, okcupid, and a whole bunch of other websites that use react. Plus I like being employed so knowing frameworks and libraries is a must.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  I don't think their main website uses React fully yet. Instagram does and that's pretty fast—same as most other well-done React apps.
  - vmasto 10y ago
    Facebook.com contains more than 20,000 react components. They use React at pretty much every dynamic aspect on their website. They also use React Native in a lot of aspects of their mobile apps, both for iOS and android.
eggy 10y ago
So your suggesting that if you question the system, you shouldn't get hired, or paid? I don't think he's saying hire web developers who don't use a single library or framework; he's calling for some perspective by looking at the latest state of system. He answered #2 in the very beginning of the article: "React was created to solve the issues Facebook were facing with their massive amount of data, activity and size." "They then went ahead and open-sourced it and released it to the public, where many developers seem to have come to the conclusion that “Facebooks’ solution to their problem is the solution to my problem”. This - in the majority of cases - is not true." I found the article refreshing in that aspect.
- zxcvcxz 10y ago
  > So your suggesting that if you question the system, you shouldn't get hired, or paid? No, I'm saying people don't typically hire developers who don't know ANY libraries or frameworks. That's reality.
sgift 10y ago
> Why do huge tech companies like facebook and google develop web frameworks if they're unnecessary? For the same reason you should write your own "framework": An internal 'framework' is nothing more but a certain way of structuring your code, so that it works for you and your problems, which no one ever argued against. It gets far harder to make that case when you say "well, all my problems can be taken care of by popular framework of the day" - now you can only solve problems well which fit the frameworks model. And if your problem doesn't fit the model you start writing around the framework, so in the end you have written - again - a custom framework, which only in name resembles the one you started with.

bostonvaulter2 10y ago

Also beware that the Fetch API doesn't have support for file upload progress tracking.