4 ms·

Which raises the question of why we the taxpayers should be funding this research if it's not easily available for the public good.

dalke 10y ago
Copyright, according to the US Constitution, exists for the public good: > To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries. You may disagree with that conclusion, but there's 200+ years of belief that it's possible to be "for the public good" and be covered under copyright which restricts redistribution. The short term loss is outweighed by the long term gain, or so the belief holds. Bear in mind that the copyright term back then was decades shorter than it is now. That said, grant organizations are turning towards requiring publication either in an open access journal, or by having papers restricted for only a short time, rather than the full length of copyright.
- chris_wot 10y ago
  The Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, and even the Act before it (the Copyright Act of 1976) seems to rather violate the constitution then: 1. It doesn't promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts 2. 120 years since creation or 95 years since publication for corporations, or the life of the author plus 70 years is not what I would call particularly "limited Times". There may be 200+ years of belief in copyright, but things have significantly changed in the last several thirty years. Copyright doesn't make as much sense as it used to, and though openness and transparency has always been supported in theory (and in practice by a minority) movements that support Open Source over a range of disciplines far greater than just software are now quite significant. Whilst it predates the Internet in it's current form, the current web and other global distribution mechanisms powered by the Internet have radically changed a lot of people's views about freedom of expression and ideas.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dalke 10y ago
    Your objections were presented to the Supreme Court, who decided they were not actually un-Constitutional in Eldred v. Ashcroft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldred_v._Ashcroft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldred_v._Ashcroft . You won't be the first to disagree with a Supreme Court decision. But the only recourse you have is get the courts change their mind in the future, or amend the Constitution. I have a hard time empathizing with an argument which, with the change of a few ephemeral names, Mad Libs style, could have been said at any time in the last 200 years. The statement "thing have significantly changed in the last several thirty years" has been true for centuries. People in the the 1950s, or 1910s, or 1870s, could and likely did say the same thing. Nor is your rhetoric about "openness and transparency" unique to these last two decades. Look to the populists and muckrakers from around 1900s as effective proponents of that. Look to the newspapers of the late 1800s, when the Linotype made it possible to have cheap newspapers, and look to the growth of wire services and the telephone, radio, and television, as recent examples of other technologies which have "radically changed a lot of people's views about freedom of expression and ideas."
    - chris_wot 10y ago
      "My" objections? Alrighty then.
      - dalke 10y ago
        Are our wires crossed again? I don't understand the point behind your reply.
        chris_wot 10y ago
        Your comment seemed a bit... personal. Whilst you had some decent points, it seemed like you were more arguing against my character.
rhino369 10y ago
I think it's a mistake to assume the general public must have access to the paper for it to advance the public good. A climate change paper does good even if the general public doesn't read it. Furthermore, most of these papers are available to the public, just not online. Many libraries have copies of the works. I do think the pricing for non-institutional clients is absurd. Paying 30 bucks just to get past the abstract is nuts.

dalke 10y ago

Copyright, according to the US Constitution, exists for the public good: > To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries. You may disagree with that conclusion, but there's 200+ years of belief that it's possible to be "for the public good" and be covered under copyright which restricts redistribution. The short term loss is outweighed by the long term gain, or so the belief holds. Bear in mind that the copyright term back then was decades shorter than it is now. That said, grant organizations are turning towards requiring publication either in an open access journal, or by having papers restricted for only a short time, rather than the full length of copyright.

chris_wot 10y ago
The Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, and even the Act before it (the Copyright Act of 1976) seems to rather violate the constitution then: 1. It doesn't promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts 2. 120 years since creation or 95 years since publication for corporations, or the life of the author plus 70 years is not what I would call particularly "limited Times". There may be 200+ years of belief in copyright, but things have significantly changed in the last several thirty years. Copyright doesn't make as much sense as it used to, and though openness and transparency has always been supported in theory (and in practice by a minority) movements that support Open Source over a range of disciplines far greater than just software are now quite significant. Whilst it predates the Internet in it's current form, the current web and other global distribution mechanisms powered by the Internet have radically changed a lot of people's views about freedom of expression and ideas.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dalke 10y ago
  Your objections were presented to the Supreme Court, who decided they were not actually un-Constitutional in Eldred v. Ashcroft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldred_v._Ashcroft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldred_v._Ashcroft . You won't be the first to disagree with a Supreme Court decision. But the only recourse you have is get the courts change their mind in the future, or amend the Constitution. I have a hard time empathizing with an argument which, with the change of a few ephemeral names, Mad Libs style, could have been said at any time in the last 200 years. The statement "thing have significantly changed in the last several thirty years" has been true for centuries. People in the the 1950s, or 1910s, or 1870s, could and likely did say the same thing. Nor is your rhetoric about "openness and transparency" unique to these last two decades. Look to the populists and muckrakers from around 1900s as effective proponents of that. Look to the newspapers of the late 1800s, when the Linotype made it possible to have cheap newspapers, and look to the growth of wire services and the telephone, radio, and television, as recent examples of other technologies which have "radically changed a lot of people's views about freedom of expression and ideas."
  - chris_wot 10y ago
    "My" objections? Alrighty then.
    - dalke 10y ago
      Are our wires crossed again? I don't understand the point behind your reply.
      - chris_wot 10y ago
        Your comment seemed a bit... personal. Whilst you had some decent points, it seemed like you were more arguing against my character.

rhino369 10y ago

I think it's a mistake to assume the general public must have access to the paper for it to advance the public good. A climate change paper does good even if the general public doesn't read it. Furthermore, most of these papers are available to the public, just not online. Many libraries have copies of the works. I do think the pricing for non-institutional clients is absurd. Paying 30 bucks just to get past the abstract is nuts.