6 ms·

Tempting Software Startup Categories

30 points by epi0Bauqu 17y ago

IgorPartola 17y ago
I often get the sense that any idea I come up with, somebody with funding and development resources has already done it. Is nothing new in the world?
- scorchin 17y ago
  That, or someone filed for a patent describing various permutations of my web app 7 years ago. Sigh.
- icey 17y ago
  There's a difference between doing something, and doing something well. Larry and Sergey didn't give up just because Yahoo!, Altavista and Excite were around.
- F_J_H 17y ago
  Yeah, great point. With so many bright minds out there, and the technology knowledge threshold becoming so much lower, it seems that all bases have been covered a few times. But, there are many examples of companies that were not first, but who have become dominant. Reminds me of a story I heard of two economists walking down the street. They spot a $100 bill lying on the ground, and one says to the other "Hey, a $100 bill. Should we grab it?" And the other says "Nah, it must be a fake. If it was real, someone would have picked it up already." *edit for clarity
wgj 17y ago
This is actually a list of obvious and highly competitive categories. Perhaps the most highly competitive categories.
lunaru 17y ago
Guilty. Invoicing and time tracking fall under category #1 along with project management and bug tracking as one of those things that naturally come to mind when thinking about a startup to work on. In my case, I'm glad I started Ronin, despite the level of competition out there. I really felt (and still do feel) that I had something unique to bring to it. In my case, it was a certain workflow that I had experience with coupled with strong UX/UI experience. And, I felt the current players in the market were insufficent (for my tastes). The real key here is to realize that in such a field, there is a large noise to signal ratio. Unless you can rise above that, it will just be 1 major player getting the lion's share of the users and the rest tripping over each other. (In my field, for example, Freshbooks is still the major player.) On the other hand, if you succeed to the point where you are a level above the noise, you have a built in insolation layer that discourages overly simplistic and naive attempts at entering the market. If you think you can commit to bringing a noticeable, appreciable and sufficient difference in quality, there's no fear in wading into a well-established field. Almost everyday I get emails from users that have noticed the difference in quality that we provide. However, if you're just there to throw up a half-assed attempt or to be a player with no discernible quality differences, I'd seriously reconsider.
ryanhuff 17y ago
I have fallen into the trap of trying to come up with an idea that is completely unique. Its tempting to look for new categories to attack, while dismissing categories with entrenched players as the lack of competition looks so appealing. In reality, unless you have some highly unique attribute to bring to market, trying to create the new market can be highly problematic. If it hasn't already been done, are your potential customers even looking for a solution to a pain? Also, are you certain that if you found a new market, that the lack of competitors isn't a sign that there really isn't a market? Even though existing markets are full of competitors, the opportunities in existing areas are much more plentiful. Instead of looking for the next big thing, why not focus for a niche in an existing market, and grow it from there? The competitive landscape is constantly changing, and new opportunities are always being created as the market shifts like the tides. What it often takes is just a new twist on an existing concept. If you attack an existing market, all you really need is an opening through a target niche to gain a foothold, and from there, iterate as fast as you can.
- adriand 17y ago
  I think that there are many, many markets that have not been noticed by most progressive developers and people who are interested in creating startups. (By progressive developers I mean those who develop really polished, usable software in the vein of web 2.0 - there is software for every conceivable market already, but there are plenty of markets that are dominated by hard-to-use, crappy software.) I suspect these areas tend to be those that are not at all among the core competencies or hobbies of software developers, for obvious reasons. For example, I recall someone who started up a site devoted to exchanging knitting patterns (or something similar) that enjoyed a lot of success. Just think about how many markets for software you could find if you just talked to women about what they want. I bet there are tons of huge moneymakers lurking in fields that most software developers think are silly - like people who love to ride horses, or love to do crochet, or enjoy (or make a living from) any of a number of fields that are far removed from the average software developer's mind. Right now, those markets are dominated either by amateurs making crappy sites, or big established players with no creative spark.
- JoeAltmaier 17y ago
SMrF 17y ago
"I just find it curious that these specific themes tend to occur again and again." The markets for each of these categories is huge with plenty of room for innovation in specialized niches. It makes sense to me to see plenty of competition in each category. That said, they do tend to line up pretty well with the demographic involved in your typical internet startup: Project Management/Bug Tracking = Developer Discussion Forums = Gamer Music/Events = Hipster Dating and Match-Making = Single And there you have your computer programmer with ironic t-shirt, no girlfriend and a level 70 mage in WoW.
- ryanelkins 17y ago
  Please, he should be lvl 80 if he's serious at all.
callmeed 17y ago
since when does "over-saturated" == "tempting"? But I think I get the point ... none of these are tempting to me (except maybe a twist on a dating site) but I suppose they are for some.
snorkel 17y ago
Personalized News Aggregation/Filtering: Having personally witnessed a few flame outs in this category I can honestly say though this area has lots of ideas and interest you will find very people willing to actually pay for personalizing it at any price point. Move along. No revenue to see here.
- yxhuvud 17y ago
  Unless you are going for mass market and can find a payer that is not paying for the service directly but rather for some kind of access to your customer. Ads come to mind, but there are other ways as well.
n8agrin 17y ago
The cup is either half empty or half full. You can look at this list as a list of oversaturated markets or as a list of markets that have produced some great innovation and probably will continue to do so in the future. Hell, take Mint for example. They came after wesabe, fit squarely in the personal info space and are considered successful by most (not based on their sale, just the service). Looking at issue management: are Jira, lighthouse, trac, bugZilla, etc the best we can do? I doubt it. Fundamentally I think any idea you are passionate about is worth pursuing. Nevermind the judgements of naysayers and lists of supposedly typical idea space.
waivej 17y ago
We should turn this into a startup/programmer decathalon. So far I've done 4 of these...to a kid with a hammer the whole world looks like a nail. Maybe I should write the others for fun.
waivej 17y ago
I've heard of machine shop operators that built their own machines. "All you need is a Bridgeport and a Lathe and can build the rest". Also, I recently shopped for a year for a good time tracking/billing system. I tried many products but non were a perfect fit. Then in desparation I built one in a few days. It improved my skills and improved my code libraries. (edit: I suppose it's different because I did a year of market research before committing to build something.)
sabat 17y ago
It would be interesting to see a brainstormed list of the most underserved categories. I remember that one of PG's essays has a list of things he thinks could use some startup love, but I'd be really interested in what other people think, too.
- arethuza 17y ago
  How about financial consolidation and reporting? Having had a fair bit of experience with "market leading" applications there is definitely a better solution out there waiting to be built.
gamble 17y ago
Most of these categories are niches that the average person has some experience with and don't require specialized knowledge or connections to create a successful product. Most programmers don't know enough about non-programming fields to build a successful product, so they all tend to pile on in the few niches they understand. There are probably a lot of business opportunities out there for programmers who also have experience in non-software fields.
peteforde 17y ago
I've come back to this list several times since I first saw it last week. Doesn't it freak you guys out that you're mining for ideas within such a small pie-slice of the human experience? There are lots of things that can bring a startup down. In my experience most founders are so close and in love with their precious idea that they only pursue evidence and opinions that support their position. So even if there is an opportunity to ask "is there a critical flaw that realistically should keep me from even starting it" most geeks will find a way not to take it. That's why Steve Blank's "customer development" reads as radical to many geeks but it's beyond obvious to people who develop products in the real world. Fact is, most startup concepts are doomed before the first line of code is written; not because of poor execution, but because the ideas just aren't that great — and they only ask people who love them "too much" to be objective for their opinion. When I tell would-be clients that their idea is not going to be a home run, that they should stop while they're ahead and take the time and money the were about to throw away and take their family on a nice vacation... some get angry, others thank me, and one fella bought a third of my company. TL;DR version: if your idea is on this list, you're not trying hard enough. Nobody needs your Basecamp clone, but everyone sits on chairs. Design a better chair.
- paulhart 17y ago
  Cloning an existing service is a sure way to fail. Looking at how existing products service a market, finding their collective blind spot, and then kicking its ass; maybe you'll be successful.

30 points by epi0Bauqu 17y ago

I often get the sense that any idea I come up with, somebody with funding and development resources has already done it. Is nothing new in the world?

scorchin 17y ago
That, or someone filed for a patent describing various permutations of my web app 7 years ago. Sigh.
icey 17y ago
There's a difference between doing something, and doing something well. Larry and Sergey didn't give up just because Yahoo!, Altavista and Excite were around.
F_J_H 17y ago
Yeah, great point. With so many bright minds out there, and the technology knowledge threshold becoming so much lower, it seems that all bases have been covered a few times. But, there are many examples of companies that were not first, but who have become dominant. Reminds me of a story I heard of two economists walking down the street. They spot a $100 bill lying on the ground, and one says to the other "Hey, a $100 bill. Should we grab it?" And the other says "Nah, it must be a fake. If it was real, someone would have picked it up already." *edit for clarity

wgj 17y ago

This is actually a list of obvious and highly competitive categories. Perhaps the most highly competitive categories.

lunaru 17y ago

Guilty. Invoicing and time tracking fall under category #1 along with project management and bug tracking as one of those things that naturally come to mind when thinking about a startup to work on. In my case, I'm glad I started Ronin, despite the level of competition out there. I really felt (and still do feel) that I had something unique to bring to it. In my case, it was a certain workflow that I had experience with coupled with strong UX/UI experience. And, I felt the current players in the market were insufficent (for my tastes). The real key here is to realize that in such a field, there is a large noise to signal ratio. Unless you can rise above that, it will just be 1 major player getting the lion's share of the users and the rest tripping over each other. (In my field, for example, Freshbooks is still the major player.) On the other hand, if you succeed to the point where you are a level above the noise, you have a built in insolation layer that discourages overly simplistic and naive attempts at entering the market. If you think you can commit to bringing a noticeable, appreciable and sufficient difference in quality, there's no fear in wading into a well-established field. Almost everyday I get emails from users that have noticed the difference in quality that we provide. However, if you're just there to throw up a half-assed attempt or to be a player with no discernible quality differences, I'd seriously reconsider.

ryanhuff 17y ago

I have fallen into the trap of trying to come up with an idea that is completely unique. Its tempting to look for new categories to attack, while dismissing categories with entrenched players as the lack of competition looks so appealing. In reality, unless you have some highly unique attribute to bring to market, trying to create the new market can be highly problematic. If it hasn't already been done, are your potential customers even looking for a solution to a pain? Also, are you certain that if you found a new market, that the lack of competitors isn't a sign that there really isn't a market? Even though existing markets are full of competitors, the opportunities in existing areas are much more plentiful. Instead of looking for the next big thing, why not focus for a niche in an existing market, and grow it from there? The competitive landscape is constantly changing, and new opportunities are always being created as the market shifts like the tides. What it often takes is just a new twist on an existing concept. If you attack an existing market, all you really need is an opening through a target niche to gain a foothold, and from there, iterate as fast as you can.

adriand 17y ago
I think that there are many, many markets that have not been noticed by most progressive developers and people who are interested in creating startups. (By progressive developers I mean those who develop really polished, usable software in the vein of web 2.0 - there is software for every conceivable market already, but there are plenty of markets that are dominated by hard-to-use, crappy software.) I suspect these areas tend to be those that are not at all among the core competencies or hobbies of software developers, for obvious reasons. For example, I recall someone who started up a site devoted to exchanging knitting patterns (or something similar) that enjoyed a lot of success. Just think about how many markets for software you could find if you just talked to women about what they want. I bet there are tons of huge moneymakers lurking in fields that most software developers think are silly - like people who love to ride horses, or love to do crochet, or enjoy (or make a living from) any of a number of fields that are far removed from the average software developer's mind. Right now, those markets are dominated either by amateurs making crappy sites, or big established players with no creative spark.
JoeAltmaier 17y ago

SMrF 17y ago

"I just find it curious that these specific themes tend to occur again and again." The markets for each of these categories is huge with plenty of room for innovation in specialized niches. It makes sense to me to see plenty of competition in each category. That said, they do tend to line up pretty well with the demographic involved in your typical internet startup: Project Management/Bug Tracking = Developer Discussion Forums = Gamer Music/Events = Hipster Dating and Match-Making = Single And there you have your computer programmer with ironic t-shirt, no girlfriend and a level 70 mage in WoW.

ryanelkins 17y ago
Please, he should be lvl 80 if he's serious at all.

callmeed 17y ago

since when does "over-saturated" == "tempting"? But I think I get the point ... none of these are tempting to me (except maybe a twist on a dating site) but I suppose they are for some.

snorkel 17y ago

Personalized News Aggregation/Filtering: Having personally witnessed a few flame outs in this category I can honestly say though this area has lots of ideas and interest you will find very people willing to actually pay for personalizing it at any price point. Move along. No revenue to see here.

yxhuvud 17y ago
Unless you are going for mass market and can find a payer that is not paying for the service directly but rather for some kind of access to your customer. Ads come to mind, but there are other ways as well.

n8agrin 17y ago

The cup is either half empty or half full. You can look at this list as a list of oversaturated markets or as a list of markets that have produced some great innovation and probably will continue to do so in the future. Hell, take Mint for example. They came after wesabe, fit squarely in the personal info space and are considered successful by most (not based on their sale, just the service). Looking at issue management: are Jira, lighthouse, trac, bugZilla, etc the best we can do? I doubt it. Fundamentally I think any idea you are passionate about is worth pursuing. Nevermind the judgements of naysayers and lists of supposedly typical idea space.

waivej 17y ago

We should turn this into a startup/programmer decathalon. So far I've done 4 of these...to a kid with a hammer the whole world looks like a nail. Maybe I should write the others for fun.

waivej 17y ago

I've heard of machine shop operators that built their own machines. "All you need is a Bridgeport and a Lathe and can build the rest". Also, I recently shopped for a year for a good time tracking/billing system. I tried many products but non were a perfect fit. Then in desparation I built one in a few days. It improved my skills and improved my code libraries. (edit: I suppose it's different because I did a year of market research before committing to build something.)

sabat 17y ago

It would be interesting to see a brainstormed list of the most underserved categories. I remember that one of PG's essays has a list of things he thinks could use some startup love, but I'd be really interested in what other people think, too.

arethuza 17y ago
How about financial consolidation and reporting? Having had a fair bit of experience with "market leading" applications there is definitely a better solution out there waiting to be built.

gamble 17y ago

Most of these categories are niches that the average person has some experience with and don't require specialized knowledge or connections to create a successful product. Most programmers don't know enough about non-programming fields to build a successful product, so they all tend to pile on in the few niches they understand. There are probably a lot of business opportunities out there for programmers who also have experience in non-software fields.

peteforde 17y ago

I've come back to this list several times since I first saw it last week. Doesn't it freak you guys out that you're mining for ideas within such a small pie-slice of the human experience? There are lots of things that can bring a startup down. In my experience most founders are so close and in love with their precious idea that they only pursue evidence and opinions that support their position. So even if there is an opportunity to ask "is there a critical flaw that realistically should keep me from even starting it" most geeks will find a way not to take it. That's why Steve Blank's "customer development" reads as radical to many geeks but it's beyond obvious to people who develop products in the real world. Fact is, most startup concepts are doomed before the first line of code is written; not because of poor execution, but because the ideas just aren't that great — and they only ask people who love them "too much" to be objective for their opinion. When I tell would-be clients that their idea is not going to be a home run, that they should stop while they're ahead and take the time and money the were about to throw away and take their family on a nice vacation... some get angry, others thank me, and one fella bought a third of my company. TL;DR version: if your idea is on this list, you're not trying hard enough. Nobody needs your Basecamp clone, but everyone sits on chairs. Design a better chair.

paulhart 17y ago
Cloning an existing service is a sure way to fail. Looking at how existing products service a market, finding their collective blind spot, and then kicking its ass; maybe you'll be successful.