5 ms·

Great idea, you get some money, and no good will and no reference. If money is more important to you than ethics and connections, this a great way to go. But kn

by tensor 10y ago

Great idea, you get some money, and no good will and no reference. If money is more important to you than ethics and connections, this a great way to go. But know that connections will get you way farther than being an arrogant but skilled individual.

oarsinsync 10y ago
Depending on your industry, you may not get any reference anyway. My references for the last 3 jobs over 6 years has been "Yes, he was employed here from $startdate to $enddate as $jobtitle" And that's it, to avoid any risk of there being any liability issue. It's gone from "you're not allowed to give a negative reference" to "why bother doing anything more than the bare minimum" in a number of industries I've been in.
- sokoloff 10y ago
  That's the official policy at a lot of places. IMO, as a manager, you're an AH if you aren't willing to give more information than that in a reference check, regardless of company policy.
  - 15155 10y ago
    The negative PR for you and your company when it's found out and publicly exposed that you're out making disparaging remarks about former employees? No matter how true, good luck.
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      No one says I make disparaging remarks about former employees. Ask me for a reference on a good former employee: you get a lot more than dates and titles. This is where I'd be an ass to not talk about them more. I don't walk around afraid of my own shadow. Ask me for a reference on a poor former employee: you get dates and titles.
  - oarsinsync 10y ago
    A lot of places with those policies also have a policy that all reference requests go to HR, even if they're received by your manager, again, for liability reasons. EDIT: just noticed that you expect former managers to risk their job to provide a positive reference for you, despite the fact that you left them. I'd gladly write recommendations on former employees linkedin profiles if requested, but when my former employee's new employer is contacting my employer (via me) for a reference, I'm not risking my job for theirs, and I don't think that makes me an AH. If they do, I've sorely misjudged them.
15155 10y ago
There's no scenario in which this reference would be anything better than "He/she worked here from date A to date B." The backchannel reference check is already blown, make no mistake. It's a firing. You're now, instead of being entitled to benefits (in most areas) or being able to negotiate for them, being given absolutely nothing. Also, a mutual non-disparagement agreement and severance is extremely easy to negotiate for. And then guess what? Instead of being fucked in that backchannel reference check, _everyone_ takes pause due to the potential consequences. Sure, a backchannel reference check might still happen, but if and when you find out about it: good night.
- knodi123 10y ago
  > Sure, a backchannel reference check might still happen, but if and when you find out about it: good night. Pardon me for being dense, but can you unpack that figure of speech at the end?
  - april1stislame 10y ago
    I will venture a shot at the guy being Portuguese and using "good night" in much the same way Americans use "game over".
  - 15155 10y ago
    It was a play on "turning the lights off" at a company, i.e. you've sued, taken some substantial sum of money, shut them down.
    - knodi123 10y ago
      Oh! I get it now. Thanks.
tomjen3 10y ago
Ethics? Jesus, you are payed money by a company because they expect to benefit from it. You owe them work, and notice as per the contract you have signed and nothing more.

by tensor 10y ago

oarsinsync 10y ago

Depending on your industry, you may not get any reference anyway. My references for the last 3 jobs over 6 years has been "Yes, he was employed here from $startdate to $enddate as $jobtitle" And that's it, to avoid any risk of there being any liability issue. It's gone from "you're not allowed to give a negative reference" to "why bother doing anything more than the bare minimum" in a number of industries I've been in.

sokoloff 10y ago
That's the official policy at a lot of places. IMO, as a manager, you're an AH if you aren't willing to give more information than that in a reference check, regardless of company policy.
- 15155 10y ago
  The negative PR for you and your company when it's found out and publicly exposed that you're out making disparaging remarks about former employees? No matter how true, good luck.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    No one says I make disparaging remarks about former employees. Ask me for a reference on a good former employee: you get a lot more than dates and titles. This is where I'd be an ass to not talk about them more. I don't walk around afraid of my own shadow. Ask me for a reference on a poor former employee: you get dates and titles.
- oarsinsync 10y ago
  A lot of places with those policies also have a policy that all reference requests go to HR, even if they're received by your manager, again, for liability reasons. EDIT: just noticed that you expect former managers to risk their job to provide a positive reference for you, despite the fact that you left them. I'd gladly write recommendations on former employees linkedin profiles if requested, but when my former employee's new employer is contacting my employer (via me) for a reference, I'm not risking my job for theirs, and I don't think that makes me an AH. If they do, I've sorely misjudged them.

15155 10y ago

There's no scenario in which this reference would be anything better than "He/she worked here from date A to date B." The backchannel reference check is already blown, make no mistake. It's a firing. You're now, instead of being entitled to benefits (in most areas) or being able to negotiate for them, being given absolutely nothing. Also, a mutual non-disparagement agreement and severance is extremely easy to negotiate for. And then guess what? Instead of being fucked in that backchannel reference check, _everyone_ takes pause due to the potential consequences. Sure, a backchannel reference check might still happen, but if and when you find out about it: good night.

knodi123 10y ago
> Sure, a backchannel reference check might still happen, but if and when you find out about it: good night. Pardon me for being dense, but can you unpack that figure of speech at the end?
- april1stislame 10y ago
  I will venture a shot at the guy being Portuguese and using "good night" in much the same way Americans use "game over".
- 15155 10y ago
  It was a play on "turning the lights off" at a company, i.e. you've sued, taken some substantial sum of money, shut them down.
  - knodi123 10y ago
    Oh! I get it now. Thanks.

tomjen3 10y ago

Ethics? Jesus, you are payed money by a company because they expect to benefit from it. You owe them work, and notice as per the contract you have signed and nothing more.