5 ms·

While pirating music or movies, one may try justify ones actions, but deep down it feels wrong. This doesn't even feel wrong. These parasites had it coming.

by abhi3 11y ago

tajen 11y ago
It does feel wrong, but it feels equally wrong that the government orders the police to prevent citizen from copying bytes.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  The social and cultural value of something is related to the cost of production, not the cost of distribution. The fact that the distribution cost is close to zero is irrelevant. The problem with copyright is that a big proportion of the price charged is basically cartel/gatekeeper protection money, and has no useful relationship to the true social cost/value of creative work.
  - gd1 11y ago
    You can spin it however you want, but if you are keeping something of worth artificially scarce when it is in fact infinitely abundant, you are deliberately impoverishing the human race. The rules of our economy, supply and demand, break down when supply is infinite... but that is a problem with the economic system that needs to be fixed (perhaps a state funded patronage model?), it's not something that pirates need to feel guilty about. Copyright law reduces the net wealth of the world. It is just plain evil.
    - dalke 11y ago
      Copyright law does not reduce the net wealth of the world. Before I wrote book X, there were no copies of book X in the world. The supply was zero, not infinite. After I wrote book X, the supply was one. Then it grows as people make copies. Copyright law can limit the growth, certainly. (Or enhancement, as the potential profits help promote distribution.) But copyright law is meant to encourage the growth from 0 to 1 by making it possible to make money from the growth from 1 to N, before the lack of copyright protection makes it effectively infinite. It's true that plenty of people will write even without getting paid. It's also true that plenty of people wrote because they will get paid. Heinlein started writing to pay off his mortgage. Copyright law is also the basis for free software. If you take away copyright law, you end up supporting proprietary software distributed only as compiled machine code, not reusable source. This to "impoverishes" the human race.
skoczymroczny 11y ago
I don't feel wrong pirating music or movies (especially considering it's legal in my country). I think trying to apply laws of limited amounts of goods (physical objects) to unlimited amount of goods (digital files) is silly.
- kqr 11y ago
  The laws are silly, I think we all agree on that. The big record labels are silly, most of us probably agree on that too. It still feels wrong when popular artists do not get paid for their work because it's more convenient for people to pirate it. I mean, creative/artistic efforts take a lot of time, regardless of how easy reproducible the results are. By paying for their previous songs, you're basically funding their next songs, something you should be interested in as a fan.
  - marknutter 11y ago
    > It still feels wrong when popular artists do not get paid for their work because it's more convenient for people to pirate it. Popular artists barely get paid for the sale of their music. They earn the bulk of their money from touring and merchandise sales (see: finite things). Given that, piracy is actually far more detrimental to the publisher/label than it is to the artist because it could mean an additional fan to purchase another ticket at a show or buy another t-shirt at a merch table. In fact, by charging money for the music, it actively discourages people from listening to it because they can't afford it or already spent their budget on artists they already know and like. In an industry where gaining fans is the most important thing you can do, this seems counterproductive.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  These unlimited goods comes from very limited and finite resources called humans. We cannot create a loophole in the previous economy recklessly. I'm not fond of labels and studios getting fat for absurd reasons, but structure is required for machines to function. Personally I stopped chasing music or movies. Mostly because nothing of that era appeals to me anymore :D (I also abused it younger and don't feel the need to binge watch as before and also prefer to pick a few stuff to give money to to support creators putting nice work). That said, I do grab some old alternative stuff from time to time. Quite often they're not buyable anyway. Release the krakens hollywood.
bcook 11y ago
If it does not feel wrong, it must be right? We should strive for a logical explanation that transcends emotional response.
- alanwatts 11y ago
  The idea of "Right vs Wrong" or "Good vs Evil", is a debate mostly based on emotions rather than logic.
  - bcook 11y ago
    My post was not comparing good or evil. I was saying that simply because you feel something does not make it so. 1 + 1 = 2, regardless of how I feel about the numbers or operators.
    - alanwatts 11y ago
      Ah, my mistake. What would your logical explanation be for this then?
      - bcook 11y ago
        The math equation?
        alanwatts 11y ago
        Which one?
        bcook 11y ago
        The one that proves my point... :) Honestly, if you are implying that math is a philosophy that is just as fallible as human emotion I am very interested, although very, very skeptical. PS - Please do not ruin math. It serves as my only foundation with reality.

While pirating music or movies, one may try justify ones actions, but deep down it feels wrong. This doesn't even feel wrong. These parasites had it coming.

by abhi3 11y ago

While pirating music or movies, one may try justify ones actions, but deep down it feels wrong. This doesn't even feel wrong. These parasites had it coming.

tajen 11y ago

It does feel wrong, but it feels equally wrong that the government orders the police to prevent citizen from copying bytes.

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
The social and cultural value of something is related to the cost of production, not the cost of distribution. The fact that the distribution cost is close to zero is irrelevant. The problem with copyright is that a big proportion of the price charged is basically cartel/gatekeeper protection money, and has no useful relationship to the true social cost/value of creative work.
- gd1 11y ago
  You can spin it however you want, but if you are keeping something of worth artificially scarce when it is in fact infinitely abundant, you are deliberately impoverishing the human race. The rules of our economy, supply and demand, break down when supply is infinite... but that is a problem with the economic system that needs to be fixed (perhaps a state funded patronage model?), it's not something that pirates need to feel guilty about. Copyright law reduces the net wealth of the world. It is just plain evil.
  - dalke 11y ago
    Copyright law does not reduce the net wealth of the world. Before I wrote book X, there were no copies of book X in the world. The supply was zero, not infinite. After I wrote book X, the supply was one. Then it grows as people make copies. Copyright law can limit the growth, certainly. (Or enhancement, as the potential profits help promote distribution.) But copyright law is meant to encourage the growth from 0 to 1 by making it possible to make money from the growth from 1 to N, before the lack of copyright protection makes it effectively infinite. It's true that plenty of people will write even without getting paid. It's also true that plenty of people wrote because they will get paid. Heinlein started writing to pay off his mortgage. Copyright law is also the basis for free software. If you take away copyright law, you end up supporting proprietary software distributed only as compiled machine code, not reusable source. This to "impoverishes" the human race.

skoczymroczny 11y ago

I don't feel wrong pirating music or movies (especially considering it's legal in my country). I think trying to apply laws of limited amounts of goods (physical objects) to unlimited amount of goods (digital files) is silly.

kqr 11y ago
The laws are silly, I think we all agree on that. The big record labels are silly, most of us probably agree on that too. It still feels wrong when popular artists do not get paid for their work because it's more convenient for people to pirate it. I mean, creative/artistic efforts take a lot of time, regardless of how easy reproducible the results are. By paying for their previous songs, you're basically funding their next songs, something you should be interested in as a fan.
- marknutter 11y ago
  > It still feels wrong when popular artists do not get paid for their work because it's more convenient for people to pirate it. Popular artists barely get paid for the sale of their music. They earn the bulk of their money from touring and merchandise sales (see: finite things). Given that, piracy is actually far more detrimental to the publisher/label than it is to the artist because it could mean an additional fan to purchase another ticket at a show or buy another t-shirt at a merch table. In fact, by charging money for the music, it actively discourages people from listening to it because they can't afford it or already spent their budget on artists they already know and like. In an industry where gaining fans is the most important thing you can do, this seems counterproductive.
agumonkey 11y ago
These unlimited goods comes from very limited and finite resources called humans. We cannot create a loophole in the previous economy recklessly. I'm not fond of labels and studios getting fat for absurd reasons, but structure is required for machines to function. Personally I stopped chasing music or movies. Mostly because nothing of that era appeals to me anymore :D (I also abused it younger and don't feel the need to binge watch as before and also prefer to pick a few stuff to give money to to support creators putting nice work). That said, I do grab some old alternative stuff from time to time. Quite often they're not buyable anyway. Release the krakens hollywood.

bcook 11y ago

If it does not feel wrong, it must be right? We should strive for a logical explanation that transcends emotional response.

alanwatts 11y ago
The idea of "Right vs Wrong" or "Good vs Evil", is a debate mostly based on emotions rather than logic.
- bcook 11y ago
  My post was not comparing good or evil. I was saying that simply because you feel something does not make it so. 1 + 1 = 2, regardless of how I feel about the numbers or operators.
  - alanwatts 11y ago
    Ah, my mistake. What would your logical explanation be for this then?
    - bcook 11y ago
      The math equation?
      - alanwatts 11y ago
        Which one?
        bcook 11y ago
        The one that proves my point... :) Honestly, if you are implying that math is a philosophy that is just as fallible as human emotion I am very interested, although very, very skeptical. PS - Please do not ruin math. It serves as my only foundation with reality.