6 ms·

How much actual evidence is there that this has anything to do with contraception? I'm getting old now, and from what I can tell contraception was just as avai

by gozur88 11y ago

How much actual evidence is there that this has anything to do with contraception? I'm getting old now, and from what I can tell contraception was just as available when I was a teen as it is now.

BinaryIdiot 11y ago
Education probably plays a good part in it. When I was growing up, and I'm only 30, we didn't get much sexual education in school, were taught to simply not have sex and many of my friends thought many untruths like pulling out is fine, douching is a form of contraception and even one unfortunate friend who thought ziplock bags were just as effective as condoms.
- Retric 11y ago
  I am 35 and in the US we had very detailed sex ed including how to use a condom, how wide the contraceptive window was ect starting around 12ish. IMO, this is really more an issue with many local schools being horrible than anything else.
  - salgernon 11y ago
    It is certainly local as there are some school boards and states that use religiously defined criteria to define their coursework. Hence creationism debates and elected officials that believe that women can "shut that whole thing down" to avoid being pregnant.
  - stephengillie 11y ago
    I am 34 in the US and didn't learn how to apply condoms until I was an adult, and I learned it from pornography.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - dpark 11y ago
    I'm 33 and grew up in the Bible belt. Looking back, I'm shocked at how good my Sex Ed was. We were taught that abstinence was the only 100% effective choice, but also about condoms and birth control pills, as well as things like the sponge (which was not recommended, but still covered) and long term hormonal implants. The biggest misinformation we were given was stuff that was genuinely believed then (and still believed by many) like there being a high likelihood of pregnancy from pre-ejaculate. But I am also confused how there are/were actually sexually active teenagers who think things like "Ziploc bags are as effective as condoms". Maybe the trickle down effect of decent Sex Ed was responsible for dispelling these kinds of beliefs before we were at the sexually active age. I certainly didn't know anyone who thought (or at least expressed) an opinion this ignorant in high school. If nothing else, having sex through a Ziploc bag sounds miserably uncomfortable. But then, I did know a guy in college who apparently thought the condom was supposed to be stretched over the scrotum, so this ignorance is out there (or at least was).
    - BinaryIdiot 11y ago
      > But I am also confused how there are/were actually sexually active teenagers who think things like "Ziploc bags are as effective as condoms". I had many stupid friends in high school :). But the schools were not highly rated as well. I do remember many new mothers in my 11th and 12th grade years and also a few who were pregnant during the graduation ceremony. So I don't think they did a good job but I don't know how much school education helps compared to at home education in regards to sex ed.
      - dpark 11y ago
        Wait, grade school? I certainly hope no one in your grade school was sexually active. If we're talking about things 4th graders believe, they believe all kinds of ridiculous things because they're little kids.
        BinaryIdiot 11y ago
        Huh. Today I learned the term "grade school" refers to elementary school (typically K through 5). I had always used it to mean school up to grade 12 (typical graduation). Oops.
- erroneousfunk 11y ago
  Very minor point: the withdrawal method (can't believe I'm actually talking about this on HN...) is actually pretty okay, and about as effective (comparing both perfect use, and imperfect use) as condoms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_me... With a caveat: If you're a teenage boy with poor self control and an even poorer sense of how your own body works, it's probably not for you. If you're a woman who doesn't completely trust her partner and his ability to do this correctly, it's probably not for you. And, obviously, it doesn't prevent STDs in the same way that a condom would (although it likely decreases HIV transmission). That's the big reason that, if it is mentioned at all in an educational context, it's to tell people not to do it, and play up the dangers. Scare the kids (who are at higher risk of the method failing) into no using it. Obviously, there are much better methods of birth control, but the withdrawal method gets a lot more flak than it deserves, IMO
bobbytherobot 11y ago
There is _more_ contraception options now available to teens. I know for a fact that IUDs were not being given to teens a decade ago, they were barely just being given to adult women in the U.S. Access to the Morning After pill has greatly increased for everyone. Then you have options like Depo-Provera. On top of that, the stigma around using the pill decreases all the time. Parents are willing to get the pill for their daughters. There is more access for contraception for women. Sadly no real changes for men. Although now you buy condoms online which reduces the stigma many young people have about buying them in person.
- mleonhard 11y ago
  Vasalgel, an excellent contraceptive for men is slowly making its way through the FDA's testing process: https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/vasalgel/ https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/vasalgel/
  - pygy_ 11y ago
    Not sure why you're getting downvotes. From what I've read it is as effective as vasectomy, but fully reversible.
    - LesZedCB 11y ago
      Their latest update was a survey saying that the reversibility trials were proving less successful in their baboon studies after great success in previous studies. They sent out a survey asking for comments on the importance of reversibility about a month ago. From the email: > A key goal for the first Vasalgel studies, in addition to demonstrating the contraceptive's safety and effectiveness, was to establish its reversibility. Vasalgel was reversible after a year in rabbits, but as we've reported, reversibility has so far been elusive in large-animal studies. > We suspect we simply haven't found a suitable large-animal model; for example the baboon vas deferens is smaller and more fragile than that of the human. We're cautiously optimistic that everything will be much easier in human trials, because the human vas is larger and sturdier. And we're hard at work trying some other things too. But in the meantime, the first clinical trial will be designed to include just men who aren't counting on reversibility, while we sort out those issues. > Thousands of people would like to be in the first trial, but there are only a few spots. And the researcher will have to pick local men who are the best candidates and want vasectomy anyway. So we're trying to keep everybody's focus on the ultimate prize: getting Vasalgel to market, with availability to ALL. If trials go well, then the sky's the limit: we'll seek approvals to bring Vasalgel to market, starting in the U.S., E.U., and Canada... and expanding from there.
Joof 11y ago
When I was a teen (10 years ago) a friend of mine was a drug dealer. He dealt morning-after pills to girls who couldn't get them normally.
- gohrt 11y ago
  > drug dealer "street pharmacist"
  - Joof 11y ago
    As a teen, drug dealer was more fun :p
- mirimir 11y ago
  So many years ago, I knew an acid chemist who provided abortions as a favor for friends, using ergometrine aka d-lysergic acid beta-propanolamide. But forgone profits were huge, given the potency differential ;)
bitJericho 11y ago
Same here. I wonder if its better access to porn?
user_0001 11y ago
I have an old friend who works for social service in the UK in a deprived area. Without wanting to be too crude, he told me that partly the reduction in teen pregnancy is down to the prevalence of porn and how it ends in a facial rather than a vaginal ejaculation.
- seunosewa 11y ago
  I don't see how your friend being a social service worker validates his opinion, plausible as it may sound.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    A social service worker is more likely to talk to a lot of teenagers than, say, a random software developer. Especially about their sex lives.

by gozur88 11y ago

How much actual evidence is there that this has anything to do with contraception? I'm getting old now, and from what I can tell contraception was just as available when I was a teen as it is now.

BinaryIdiot 11y ago

Education probably plays a good part in it. When I was growing up, and I'm only 30, we didn't get much sexual education in school, were taught to simply not have sex and many of my friends thought many untruths like pulling out is fine, douching is a form of contraception and even one unfortunate friend who thought ziplock bags were just as effective as condoms.

Retric 11y ago
I am 35 and in the US we had very detailed sex ed including how to use a condom, how wide the contraceptive window was ect starting around 12ish. IMO, this is really more an issue with many local schools being horrible than anything else.
- salgernon 11y ago
  It is certainly local as there are some school boards and states that use religiously defined criteria to define their coursework. Hence creationism debates and elected officials that believe that women can "shut that whole thing down" to avoid being pregnant.
- stephengillie 11y ago
  I am 34 in the US and didn't learn how to apply condoms until I was an adult, and I learned it from pornography.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- dpark 11y ago
  I'm 33 and grew up in the Bible belt. Looking back, I'm shocked at how good my Sex Ed was. We were taught that abstinence was the only 100% effective choice, but also about condoms and birth control pills, as well as things like the sponge (which was not recommended, but still covered) and long term hormonal implants. The biggest misinformation we were given was stuff that was genuinely believed then (and still believed by many) like there being a high likelihood of pregnancy from pre-ejaculate. But I am also confused how there are/were actually sexually active teenagers who think things like "Ziploc bags are as effective as condoms". Maybe the trickle down effect of decent Sex Ed was responsible for dispelling these kinds of beliefs before we were at the sexually active age. I certainly didn't know anyone who thought (or at least expressed) an opinion this ignorant in high school. If nothing else, having sex through a Ziploc bag sounds miserably uncomfortable. But then, I did know a guy in college who apparently thought the condom was supposed to be stretched over the scrotum, so this ignorance is out there (or at least was).
  - BinaryIdiot 11y ago
    > But I am also confused how there are/were actually sexually active teenagers who think things like "Ziploc bags are as effective as condoms". I had many stupid friends in high school :). But the schools were not highly rated as well. I do remember many new mothers in my 11th and 12th grade years and also a few who were pregnant during the graduation ceremony. So I don't think they did a good job but I don't know how much school education helps compared to at home education in regards to sex ed.
    - dpark 11y ago
      Wait, grade school? I certainly hope no one in your grade school was sexually active. If we're talking about things 4th graders believe, they believe all kinds of ridiculous things because they're little kids.
      - BinaryIdiot 11y ago
        Huh. Today I learned the term "grade school" refers to elementary school (typically K through 5). I had always used it to mean school up to grade 12 (typical graduation). Oops.
erroneousfunk 11y ago
Very minor point: the withdrawal method (can't believe I'm actually talking about this on HN...) is actually pretty okay, and about as effective (comparing both perfect use, and imperfect use) as condoms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_me... With a caveat: If you're a teenage boy with poor self control and an even poorer sense of how your own body works, it's probably not for you. If you're a woman who doesn't completely trust her partner and his ability to do this correctly, it's probably not for you. And, obviously, it doesn't prevent STDs in the same way that a condom would (although it likely decreases HIV transmission). That's the big reason that, if it is mentioned at all in an educational context, it's to tell people not to do it, and play up the dangers. Scare the kids (who are at higher risk of the method failing) into no using it. Obviously, there are much better methods of birth control, but the withdrawal method gets a lot more flak than it deserves, IMO

bobbytherobot 11y ago

There is _more_ contraception options now available to teens. I know for a fact that IUDs were not being given to teens a decade ago, they were barely just being given to adult women in the U.S. Access to the Morning After pill has greatly increased for everyone. Then you have options like Depo-Provera. On top of that, the stigma around using the pill decreases all the time. Parents are willing to get the pill for their daughters. There is more access for contraception for women. Sadly no real changes for men. Although now you buy condoms online which reduces the stigma many young people have about buying them in person.

mleonhard 11y ago
Vasalgel, an excellent contraceptive for men is slowly making its way through the FDA's testing process: https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/vasalgel/ https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/projects/vasalgel/
- pygy_ 11y ago
  Not sure why you're getting downvotes. From what I've read it is as effective as vasectomy, but fully reversible.
  - LesZedCB 11y ago
    Their latest update was a survey saying that the reversibility trials were proving less successful in their baboon studies after great success in previous studies. They sent out a survey asking for comments on the importance of reversibility about a month ago. From the email: > A key goal for the first Vasalgel studies, in addition to demonstrating the contraceptive's safety and effectiveness, was to establish its reversibility. Vasalgel was reversible after a year in rabbits, but as we've reported, reversibility has so far been elusive in large-animal studies. > We suspect we simply haven't found a suitable large-animal model; for example the baboon vas deferens is smaller and more fragile than that of the human. We're cautiously optimistic that everything will be much easier in human trials, because the human vas is larger and sturdier. And we're hard at work trying some other things too. But in the meantime, the first clinical trial will be designed to include just men who aren't counting on reversibility, while we sort out those issues. > Thousands of people would like to be in the first trial, but there are only a few spots. And the researcher will have to pick local men who are the best candidates and want vasectomy anyway. So we're trying to keep everybody's focus on the ultimate prize: getting Vasalgel to market, with availability to ALL. If trials go well, then the sky's the limit: we'll seek approvals to bring Vasalgel to market, starting in the U.S., E.U., and Canada... and expanding from there.

Joof 11y ago

When I was a teen (10 years ago) a friend of mine was a drug dealer. He dealt morning-after pills to girls who couldn't get them normally.

gohrt 11y ago
> drug dealer "street pharmacist"
- Joof 11y ago
  As a teen, drug dealer was more fun :p
mirimir 11y ago
So many years ago, I knew an acid chemist who provided abortions as a favor for friends, using ergometrine aka d-lysergic acid beta-propanolamide. But forgone profits were huge, given the potency differential ;)

bitJericho 11y ago

Same here. I wonder if its better access to porn?

user_0001 11y ago

I have an old friend who works for social service in the UK in a deprived area. Without wanting to be too crude, he told me that partly the reduction in teen pregnancy is down to the prevalence of porn and how it ends in a facial rather than a vaginal ejaculation.

seunosewa 11y ago
I don't see how your friend being a social service worker validates his opinion, plausible as it may sound.
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  A social service worker is more likely to talk to a lot of teenagers than, say, a random software developer. Especially about their sex lives.