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How does your theory account for Elon Musk? Is he not rich enough yet to be "bad" in this way? Everything I've read about the man makes me think if you gave h

by rdl 11y ago

How does your theory account for Elon Musk? Is he not rich enough yet to be "bad" in this way? Everything I've read about the man makes me think if you gave him $100b he would invest all $100b in doing some awesome project which would only be successful through the superhuman efforts of himself and his team, but wouldn't require a command economy otherwise. Vertical integration inside, yes.

gordon_freeman 11y ago
isn't it true that all of Musk's companies benefiting from the governments' help in terms of federal subsidies and space contracts? Do you think without it he would have been this successful?
- vvanders 11y ago
  I think you're forgetting about PayPal.
  - Throwaway23412 11y ago
    Ok. All but one then.
    - sokoloff 11y ago
      Yes, but that was the one that made him successful.
    - rdl 11y ago
      And Zip2?
- btian 11y ago
  How are space contracts governments' help and not SpaceX helping government from the evil ULA?
  - greglindahl 11y ago
    The intent of the COTS contracts was to procure launches for much less than the usual price by providing up-front payments in exchange for a block buy of future launches. Seems to have worked great. Commercial companies sign contracts like that on occasion, when they don't like the prices from their current suppliers.
  - gordon_freeman 11y ago
    because I have said that assuming that Musk's main goal with SpaceX is not to send the supply (or astronauts in near future) to Space Station. His main mission with SpaceX is to help create a self-sustaining city on Mars. It seems to me he is using government's space contract money to pay the bills till he achieves his main mission. In that sense, I'd say that Govt is helping him and not the other way around.
- educar 11y ago
  Not sure why you are getting downvoted, seems like a honest question.
- rdl 11y ago
  He certainly has benefitted from government programs (and of course from the general commercial situation in the US, lots of smart people here, centuries of science and engineering, etc.) That doesn't really speak to him being a closet authoritarian or anything, though.
- cmsmith 11y ago
  The other takeaway would be that Musk, unlike all those other billionaires, is working on things that are in the public interest. He generally wasn't the instigator for the govt subsidies, but his interests of "make money while making the world a better place" are pretty well aligned with the governments interests of "spend money in the USA while making the world a better place".
  - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
    "In the public interest" is a very debateable term. I consider the way Google handles privacy and their cloud push very against the human interest. Of course, Google would argue offering free services that connect and inform people is in the public interest.
    - oarsinsync 11y ago
      Your vision may align with the governments then, given that the government isn't offering subsidies for companies to invest in cloud
hinkley 11y ago
Easy. Elon Musk doesn't want to rule the Earth. He wants to rule Mars.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  I mean, if he gets there first, I just feel that's fair.
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
Because he built practical companies with practical objectives with practical funding. Tesla started as a supercar company and slowly migrated to what it is today. Electric tech was actually old by the time Elon started, with GM already having built the EV1 program. This was all proven technology waiting for the right group to monetize. It also helps that lithium ion pricing had fallen significantly. The EV1's biggest fault was its old school lead-acid batteries which couldn't deliver the range and power li-ion could. In hindsight, li-ion and electric cars are a no brainer. That combination with, lets not forget, Tesla's and its buyers vast government subsidies turned out to be workable. SpaceX for all its wonders, exists only because of the COTS program generously funded by the US taxpayer. Its been a long slog to its current levels and still has a way to go, but it has customers and accomplishments to show for itself and builds off rocket technologies that are decades old. Both of Elon's businesses are more refinements of existing technology than pie-in-the-sky daydreaming. That's very different than giving speeches and interviews about living forever, having a 2001 style AI in your home, and airports run by robots. Musk is still in his peak. I guess we'll see how he turns out, but he's not comparable to Page yet.

by rdl 11y ago

gordon_freeman 11y ago

isn't it true that all of Musk's companies benefiting from the governments' help in terms of federal subsidies and space contracts? Do you think without it he would have been this successful?

vvanders 11y ago
I think you're forgetting about PayPal.
- Throwaway23412 11y ago
  Ok. All but one then.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    Yes, but that was the one that made him successful.
  - rdl 11y ago
    And Zip2?
btian 11y ago
How are space contracts governments' help and not SpaceX helping government from the evil ULA?
- greglindahl 11y ago
  The intent of the COTS contracts was to procure launches for much less than the usual price by providing up-front payments in exchange for a block buy of future launches. Seems to have worked great. Commercial companies sign contracts like that on occasion, when they don't like the prices from their current suppliers.
- gordon_freeman 11y ago
  because I have said that assuming that Musk's main goal with SpaceX is not to send the supply (or astronauts in near future) to Space Station. His main mission with SpaceX is to help create a self-sustaining city on Mars. It seems to me he is using government's space contract money to pay the bills till he achieves his main mission. In that sense, I'd say that Govt is helping him and not the other way around.
educar 11y ago
Not sure why you are getting downvoted, seems like a honest question.
rdl 11y ago
He certainly has benefitted from government programs (and of course from the general commercial situation in the US, lots of smart people here, centuries of science and engineering, etc.) That doesn't really speak to him being a closet authoritarian or anything, though.
cmsmith 11y ago
The other takeaway would be that Musk, unlike all those other billionaires, is working on things that are in the public interest. He generally wasn't the instigator for the govt subsidies, but his interests of "make money while making the world a better place" are pretty well aligned with the governments interests of "spend money in the USA while making the world a better place".
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  "In the public interest" is a very debateable term. I consider the way Google handles privacy and their cloud push very against the human interest. Of course, Google would argue offering free services that connect and inform people is in the public interest.
  - oarsinsync 11y ago
    Your vision may align with the governments then, given that the government isn't offering subsidies for companies to invest in cloud

hinkley 11y ago

Easy. Elon Musk doesn't want to rule the Earth. He wants to rule Mars.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
I mean, if he gets there first, I just feel that's fair.

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

Because he built practical companies with practical objectives with practical funding. Tesla started as a supercar company and slowly migrated to what it is today. Electric tech was actually old by the time Elon started, with GM already having built the EV1 program. This was all proven technology waiting for the right group to monetize. It also helps that lithium ion pricing had fallen significantly. The EV1's biggest fault was its old school lead-acid batteries which couldn't deliver the range and power li-ion could. In hindsight, li-ion and electric cars are a no brainer. That combination with, lets not forget, Tesla's and its buyers vast government subsidies turned out to be workable. SpaceX for all its wonders, exists only because of the COTS program generously funded by the US taxpayer. Its been a long slog to its current levels and still has a way to go, but it has customers and accomplishments to show for itself and builds off rocket technologies that are decades old. Both of Elon's businesses are more refinements of existing technology than pie-in-the-sky daydreaming. That's very different than giving speeches and interviews about living forever, having a 2001 style AI in your home, and airports run by robots. Musk is still in his peak. I guess we'll see how he turns out, but he's not comparable to Page yet.