6 ms·

"I was not a loser, but I just wanted to live ordinarily" Perhaps this is the best proof of his extraordinary intelligence.

by huherto 17y ago

jraynor 17y ago
I would be very interested in reading comments elaborating on this stance by people that agree with it, since my view is a bit different. In the interest of human progress, I would prefer that people with great ability are encouraged by society and their peers (which I assume the great minds at HN are likely to be among). I mean this in terms of what I see should be encouraged and done so through morals and not laws (e.g. in no way promote the violation of a person's freedom or liberty).
- python123 17y ago
  Quit trying to suck up to the people on here. They are not talented people. This would be obvious to you if you had any talent at all. These people are mostly 30-some career software engineers who fantasize about becoming entrepreneurs and like thinking of themselves as hackers even though they lack the skills to justify that term. There's some good domain technical knowledge here, but very little actual intelligence. Just read any math links (everybody upvotes to look good, but nobody comments because they don't really understand - or they write really dumb comments). If you can read Outliers and not understand the horrible science and generalizations behind it then you are an idiot. 120 IQ?? Are you kidding me? Maybe it makes you feel better because you only have a 120 IQ, but that precludes you from achieving anything meaningful in math and science. High IQ does not mean you will be a high achiever, but only those with exception IQ's are able to achieve in certain fields. This is the problem with America. This is why America will lose to China in the next decades. We are trained to feel better about ourselves be devaluing those with superior intellect and ability.
  - bitwize 17y ago
    Would that you could tell that to Feynman (I.Q. 127). His amused smile at your remarks would probably be one for the ages.
    - python123 17y ago
      That only means IQ tests are utter bullcrap. I'm talking about real intelligence. Feynman was an extremely gifted mathematician from a very early age. He won lots of math awards and was even a Putnam Fellow. Those are far more legitimate tests of his intelligence than whatever garbage exam produced his 127. It's good you take a single example and try to generalize without looking at any other facts. Sure, most people with 120 IQs can win Putnam or go on to become great physicists.
      - Confusion 17y ago
        If you are going to argue something while insulting the intelligence of the community you are trying to convince, at least make sure you have a clear and consistent argument to make. You're currently contradicting yourself, by first claiming [..] only those with exception IQ's are able to achieve in certain fields while you now claim IQ tests are utter bullcrap If you confuse the terms intelligence and IQ, any arguments concerning the difference become very unconvincing.
      - pw0ncakes 17y ago
        I don't think there's an IQ test out there that can reliably distinguish 1M:1 ("175") intelligence from 1000:1 ("147"), but it definitely exists and, in some pursuits, it matters. I know because I'm in the 1-10k:1 range and I know some 1M:1 people (IMO gold medalists, Putnam fellows) and, although they aren't so different as to live in a separate world, they're clearly smarter.
        python123 17y ago
        Ummm..... wouldn't such a test be something like Putnam or IMO? As you said, those exact tests that let us distinguish at that level.
        pw0ncakes 17y ago
        First of all, you can study for those (although virtually all of us hit a ceiling because those problems are very hard). I used to study for those tests (although technically not IMO since I never qualified for it) and did reasonably well, although my IQ is "only" about 150. If these tests were perfect IQ tests, I shouldn't have even placed in the top thousand... since there are 400-4000 Americans smarter than me per year, plus the international students. (However, my "math IQ" if such a thing could be measured would probably be around 165-170, and "verbal IQ" around 135-140.) Also, there are a couple of famous mathematicians (names don't come to mind) who are notorious for sucking at proofs. Their conjectures were very good and almost always right, but they relied on future mathematicians to prove their work (details, details). They would likely zero the Putnam.
  - rictic 17y ago
    "Maybe it makes you feel better because you only have a 120 IQ, but that precludes you from achieving anything meaningful in math and science." Child prodigy and Fields Medalist Terry Tao disagrees: http://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to-be-a-genius-to-do-maths/ http://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to...
    - python123 17y ago
      LOL. I love this example. An absolute genius looks at his own work and thought process to conclude that one does not need to be a 'genius' in order to succeed in math. It's difficult for someone that brilliant to understand that while the things he does may seem ordinary, they are far beyond the reach of the vast majority of human beings. And he's trying to convince the people who were only Putnam honorable mentions or whatever not to give up on math. This has nothing to do with people with a 120 IQ (I know IQ is a BS measure, but when people say 120 IQ, they mean someone who is above-average, but modestly so). I wonder what Terry Tao's definition of genius is. Would he consider himself a genius? Everybody else would. But he might not.
      - Confusion 17y ago
        It's difficult for someone that brilliant to understand that while the things he does may seem ordinary, they are far beyond the reach of the vast majority of human beings. Right, so on the hand, he's brilliant and understand both things that are ordinary and things that are extraordinary, but when it comes to somewhat softer knowledge, suddenly his genius is a reason for him to not understand something. Luckily we have you to explain that to him and us...</below the waist, but you are really, really asking for it> Tao is a genius that teaches other people how to do math and we may well assume that he understands what it requires. He has probably taught dozen of students and according to him, they could be people that score 120 on an IQ test and yet succeed at math. Finally, if only geniuses could succeed at math, most Ph.D. students would not count as successful, despite advancing the science. You're redefining 'success' to suit your needs and you're doing the same thing with other facts: bending their ambiguity to support your thesis, instead of basing your thesis on a single interpretation of the facts.
- metamemetics 17y ago
  Having a high IQ can be as much of a curse as it is a blessing. Sometimes the pressure is too much and you want to try and stop thinking and just observe.
  - wisty 17y ago
    I have quite a high IQ. When I was starting school, they though I had a learning disability. My parents sent me to be tested . Apparently I was one of the smartest kids that the tester had seen, but I was a bit disorganized and tended to overfocus (which would be diagnosed as mild ADHD these days ... when everyone has to have a frigging disorder). I don't know how high the score was, or how many kids he had tested, or whether all the other kids were genuinely low IQ ... who care about this stuff anyway? My parents were smart enough to not tell me (until I was halfway through uni), because they knew I wasn't mature enough to know that the smartest thing you can do (especially when you are learning) is giving other people's intelligence the benefit of the doubt and try to learn from them.
- kls 17y ago
  --I would prefer that people with great ability are encouraged by society and their peers While in concept it is a great idea, the realities are usually much harder for the exceptional gifted. I have a really good friend with aspergers syndrome who has as slightly higher IQ (190's) than mine. He is very well liked but his perception of reality is quite distorted due to his hindrance, unfortunately high IQ is many times coupled with some other form of mental or physical impairment, there are a lot of theories as to why this is, but sufficient to say not all of them are a joy. My point being these impairments are usually the target of ridicule at formative points in an intelligent persons life and some times bitters them from the pursuit of their potential and in extreme cases like my friend bitters them from helping better mankind at all.
- huherto 17y ago
  Being the smartest man in world(or at least) can be a big burden. Can you imagine that? Every body expecting you too be perfect; every little sentence you make analyzed; everybody trying to see how smart you really are; everybody trying to prove that they are smarter than you; everybody criticizing that you haven't contributed more. Being the smarter man in the world was given to you; you didn't ask for it. Besides, there are plenty of things that are important, and intelligence should be also about living a full filling life.
DaniFong 17y ago
There are many happy ways to live, but to each their own. I wrote an essay on my experience, a bit of a similar topic. http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-young/ http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-...

"I was not a loser, but I just wanted to live ordinarily" Perhaps this is the best proof of his extraordinary intelligence.

by huherto 17y ago

"I was not a loser, but I just wanted to live ordinarily" Perhaps this is the best proof of his extraordinary intelligence.

jraynor 17y ago

I would be very interested in reading comments elaborating on this stance by people that agree with it, since my view is a bit different. In the interest of human progress, I would prefer that people with great ability are encouraged by society and their peers (which I assume the great minds at HN are likely to be among). I mean this in terms of what I see should be encouraged and done so through morals and not laws (e.g. in no way promote the violation of a person's freedom or liberty).

python123 17y ago
Quit trying to suck up to the people on here. They are not talented people. This would be obvious to you if you had any talent at all. These people are mostly 30-some career software engineers who fantasize about becoming entrepreneurs and like thinking of themselves as hackers even though they lack the skills to justify that term. There's some good domain technical knowledge here, but very little actual intelligence. Just read any math links (everybody upvotes to look good, but nobody comments because they don't really understand - or they write really dumb comments). If you can read Outliers and not understand the horrible science and generalizations behind it then you are an idiot. 120 IQ?? Are you kidding me? Maybe it makes you feel better because you only have a 120 IQ, but that precludes you from achieving anything meaningful in math and science. High IQ does not mean you will be a high achiever, but only those with exception IQ's are able to achieve in certain fields. This is the problem with America. This is why America will lose to China in the next decades. We are trained to feel better about ourselves be devaluing those with superior intellect and ability.
- bitwize 17y ago
  Would that you could tell that to Feynman (I.Q. 127). His amused smile at your remarks would probably be one for the ages.
  - python123 17y ago
    That only means IQ tests are utter bullcrap. I'm talking about real intelligence. Feynman was an extremely gifted mathematician from a very early age. He won lots of math awards and was even a Putnam Fellow. Those are far more legitimate tests of his intelligence than whatever garbage exam produced his 127. It's good you take a single example and try to generalize without looking at any other facts. Sure, most people with 120 IQs can win Putnam or go on to become great physicists.
    - Confusion 17y ago
      If you are going to argue something while insulting the intelligence of the community you are trying to convince, at least make sure you have a clear and consistent argument to make. You're currently contradicting yourself, by first claiming [..] only those with exception IQ's are able to achieve in certain fields while you now claim IQ tests are utter bullcrap If you confuse the terms intelligence and IQ, any arguments concerning the difference become very unconvincing.
    - pw0ncakes 17y ago
      I don't think there's an IQ test out there that can reliably distinguish 1M:1 ("175") intelligence from 1000:1 ("147"), but it definitely exists and, in some pursuits, it matters. I know because I'm in the 1-10k:1 range and I know some 1M:1 people (IMO gold medalists, Putnam fellows) and, although they aren't so different as to live in a separate world, they're clearly smarter.
      - python123 17y ago
        Ummm..... wouldn't such a test be something like Putnam or IMO? As you said, those exact tests that let us distinguish at that level.
        pw0ncakes 17y ago
        First of all, you can study for those (although virtually all of us hit a ceiling because those problems are very hard). I used to study for those tests (although technically not IMO since I never qualified for it) and did reasonably well, although my IQ is "only" about 150. If these tests were perfect IQ tests, I shouldn't have even placed in the top thousand... since there are 400-4000 Americans smarter than me per year, plus the international students. (However, my "math IQ" if such a thing could be measured would probably be around 165-170, and "verbal IQ" around 135-140.) Also, there are a couple of famous mathematicians (names don't come to mind) who are notorious for sucking at proofs. Their conjectures were very good and almost always right, but they relied on future mathematicians to prove their work (details, details). They would likely zero the Putnam.
- rictic 17y ago
  "Maybe it makes you feel better because you only have a 120 IQ, but that precludes you from achieving anything meaningful in math and science." Child prodigy and Fields Medalist Terry Tao disagrees: http://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to-be-a-genius-to-do-maths/ http://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/does-one-have-to...
  - python123 17y ago
    LOL. I love this example. An absolute genius looks at his own work and thought process to conclude that one does not need to be a 'genius' in order to succeed in math. It's difficult for someone that brilliant to understand that while the things he does may seem ordinary, they are far beyond the reach of the vast majority of human beings. And he's trying to convince the people who were only Putnam honorable mentions or whatever not to give up on math. This has nothing to do with people with a 120 IQ (I know IQ is a BS measure, but when people say 120 IQ, they mean someone who is above-average, but modestly so). I wonder what Terry Tao's definition of genius is. Would he consider himself a genius? Everybody else would. But he might not.
    - Confusion 17y ago
      It's difficult for someone that brilliant to understand that while the things he does may seem ordinary, they are far beyond the reach of the vast majority of human beings. Right, so on the hand, he's brilliant and understand both things that are ordinary and things that are extraordinary, but when it comes to somewhat softer knowledge, suddenly his genius is a reason for him to not understand something. Luckily we have you to explain that to him and us...</below the waist, but you are really, really asking for it> Tao is a genius that teaches other people how to do math and we may well assume that he understands what it requires. He has probably taught dozen of students and according to him, they could be people that score 120 on an IQ test and yet succeed at math. Finally, if only geniuses could succeed at math, most Ph.D. students would not count as successful, despite advancing the science. You're redefining 'success' to suit your needs and you're doing the same thing with other facts: bending their ambiguity to support your thesis, instead of basing your thesis on a single interpretation of the facts.
metamemetics 17y ago
Having a high IQ can be as much of a curse as it is a blessing. Sometimes the pressure is too much and you want to try and stop thinking and just observe.
- wisty 17y ago
  I have quite a high IQ. When I was starting school, they though I had a learning disability. My parents sent me to be tested . Apparently I was one of the smartest kids that the tester had seen, but I was a bit disorganized and tended to overfocus (which would be diagnosed as mild ADHD these days ... when everyone has to have a frigging disorder). I don't know how high the score was, or how many kids he had tested, or whether all the other kids were genuinely low IQ ... who care about this stuff anyway? My parents were smart enough to not tell me (until I was halfway through uni), because they knew I wasn't mature enough to know that the smartest thing you can do (especially when you are learning) is giving other people's intelligence the benefit of the doubt and try to learn from them.
kls 17y ago
--I would prefer that people with great ability are encouraged by society and their peers While in concept it is a great idea, the realities are usually much harder for the exceptional gifted. I have a really good friend with aspergers syndrome who has as slightly higher IQ (190's) than mine. He is very well liked but his perception of reality is quite distorted due to his hindrance, unfortunately high IQ is many times coupled with some other form of mental or physical impairment, there are a lot of theories as to why this is, but sufficient to say not all of them are a joy. My point being these impairments are usually the target of ridicule at formative points in an intelligent persons life and some times bitters them from the pursuit of their potential and in extreme cases like my friend bitters them from helping better mankind at all.
huherto 17y ago
Being the smartest man in world(or at least) can be a big burden. Can you imagine that? Every body expecting you too be perfect; every little sentence you make analyzed; everybody trying to see how smart you really are; everybody trying to prove that they are smarter than you; everybody criticizing that you haven't contributed more. Being the smarter man in the world was given to you; you didn't ask for it. Besides, there are plenty of things that are important, and intelligence should be also about living a full filling life.

DaniFong 17y ago

There are many happy ways to live, but to each their own. I wrote an essay on my experience, a bit of a similar topic. http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-young/ http://daniellefong.com/2008/05/15/advice-to-the-bright-and-...