4 ms·

Ask America: how much more wildly dysfunctional does your healthcare industry have to get before you finally admit what every other industrialized country on ea

Ask America: how much more wildly dysfunctional does your healthcare industry have to get before you finally admit what every other industrialized country on earth already understands: that health care is a public service, not a commodity?

jcromartie 17y ago
You underestimate the power of groups to convince massive numbers of people to act against their own best interests. Just look at the astroturfing going on in the "Tea Party" movement. There is so much big money and influence going on now that it is basically an official branch of the RNC.
- josefresco 17y ago
  There's also the fact that many (voters) do have insurance and don't want to pay for someone elses when 'they already got theirs'. Once someone has their slice of the American dream, they generally fight all cost/tax increases and change.
  - bwh2 17y ago
    I think it's partially that. But it's also partially fear of the unknown. Essentially, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Sure, my health insurance now sucks and I'm terrified they'll drop me, but who knows what would happen if the system changed.
    - pw0ncakes 17y ago
      Most people think their health insurance is great (or at least did until recently) because they've never needed it for anything large. If you're not terribly informed or introspective, and the cost to you of something is hidden (employer pays) and you got $7,500 from your insurance company the one time in 15 years you had a significant medical cost, you're going to think of it as a "benefit". This is similar to the political syndrome where people think their representatives are great; it's all those other slimy bastards who are the problem. Thus, incumbents have a huge advantage and bad politicians rarely get fired.
pragmatic 17y ago
Please define "wildly dysfunctional".
- va_coder 17y ago
  I recently had a physical therapist look at my 6 month old daughter at G'town hospital in DC for a routine checkup. Before I could see the therapist for a half-hour session I had to interact with 4 different people and sign so much paperwork that I felt like I was buying a house. The system is broken.
- munctional 17y ago
  The way we use health insurance nowadays is akin to using your car insurance for oil changes and checkups.
  - RyanMcGreal 17y ago
    Bollocks. I use my health insurance (publicly funded - I'm Canadian) for oil changes and checkups, and Canada still manages to spend about half, per capita, on health coverage as the US.
    - halostatue 17y ago
      Not only that, but most employers offer supplementary insurance of one form or another to provide for the things not covered by public insurance. Because they don't have to worry about most of the Big Things (except dental and usually optometric), it's far easier and cheaper for them to offer some of the smaller things (massage, orthotics, etc.).
- staticshock 17y ago
  People call it "dysfunctional" because they conflate the "insurance industry" with the "healthcare indsutry". What exists in the American private sector is not, by any means, a healthcare industry. It is merely an insurance industry. By insurance industry standards, it functions well. By healthcare standards, it's terrifically broken.
- 17y ago
j_baker 17y ago
The problem is a very vocal minority of people that seem to think the healthcare system will fix itself or works great as it is.
- nroach 17y ago
  In the US, those people tend to fall into one of a few groups: 1) They're covered by a government plan already (medicare, medicaid) 2) They have a good employer-sponsored plan and don't see the costs. My own parents fall into this category, having worked for basically one company their entire lives and gaining entitlement to that plan on retirement. However, this form of entitlement is rapidly disappearing and I doubt that people entering the workforce today will have this level of benefit. 3) Cost is no object. Some people are fortunate enough to have either made or been born into enough money that a few hundred or a few thousand per month just isn't a big expense. I hope to be in this group some day, but I realize that this segment is never going to be a majority. 4) The terrified. I have a handful of friends that also fall into this group. They are told by their choice of media outlets that the socialists are going to take away their medical care and that the Democrats' bills are just the first on a "slippery slope" to take away their guns and their freedom. Personally, I think the entire concept of employer-based healthcare is a drag on our economy. It puts a very high incentive on remaining in "safe" employment and dissuades people from starting their own ventures or joining a startup. I ran into this recently when trying to hire a developer. Unable to offer health insurance, even the potential rewards of working for a startup weren't enough to offset the risk involved in losing health coverage. This is particularly true in a system where any lapse in coverage can result in permanent ineligibility for future coverage. The U.S. system delivers great care to those who can afford it. Perhaps the current Congressional bills aren't the right solution. But, the overall problem is strangling our competitive advantage. And America's entrepreneurs are at the forefront of this battle. I hope they don't also turn out to be its casualties.
- pw0ncakes 17y ago
  People who think the healthcare system works great as-is are fucking morons. This is similar to how I can respect someone who conservative on firm intellectual grounds, and who may be a Republican who voted for Bush, even though I don't agree with him; but not someone who liked and supported Bush.
coffeemug 17y ago
Our healthcare industry isn't 'wildly dysfunctional'. I knew an illegal immigrant with metastasized cancer, who had multiple surgeries and whose lifetime was extended by at least five years (vs. what he would have gotten in Ukraine with their 'nationalized' healthcare). He polished shoes for a living and had no health insurance. I believe he paid about $20/month for hospital bills in order to avoid bankruptcy (I'm not sure how the loan process works). I've lived here for thirteen years and haven't heard a single redditesque 'horror' story from anyone I know. If you want/need insurance you can find a way to get it cheaply. If you need medical care, you'll have access to better doctors, better drugs, and better equipment than just about anywhere in the world (not counting EU, as I don't know how your system works in practice). Yeah, our system could use an overhaul, but it is far, far from being 'wildly dysfunctional'.
- cjoh 17y ago
  I dunno man. When my mom got breast cancer, her health insurance went from $300/mo to $3,000/mo in 30 days! My dad, 10 years her elder came out of retirement at age 70 and went to work for the state of Georgia so that she could get on his insurance plan at work. Thank god my Dad was still alive, and capable of working otherwise she'd be dead. But the point is: That $300/mo wasn't insurance it was a joke. And that $3000/mo wasn't insurance it was extortion. If you think our healthcare industry is fine, well, god bless you. I hope you never have to go what my family went through.
  - roc 17y ago
    I find that most people who think the US health system is fine are those who've been lucky enough to either never actually use it, or pay for it.
axod 17y ago
The irony is that America spends so so much on military, and seems to believe that military is something extremely important and should be a public service, but doesn't seem to view basic healthcare the same. Bizarre.
- halostatue 17y ago
  Interesting side note: while one is in the military, you get damn near first-class health care for you and your family. In this way, at least the most socialistic organization in America is its military. (I'm a U.S. military brat, and took healthcare for granted until I went to University and was no longer covered. Now I'm Canadian and while I don't take healthcare for granted, I'm so glad I don't have to scramble for it the way that too many in the U.S. do.)
jdminhbg 17y ago
Ask Non-Americans: Are you aware that agreeing that something is broken is different from agreeing on how to fix it? Do you not have disagreements in your countries?
- RyanMcGreal 17y ago
  No major American political party (okay, there are only two of them) will even entertain the obvious solution that everyone else has settled on, albeit via a variety of paths. Say what you want about reasonable people disagreeing with each other; the absence of any institutional support for universal health care is a big red flag that your system is broken.
  - jdminhbg 17y ago
    And somehow, it's Americans who get a bad rap for thinking their own solutions should be applied everywhere else.

jcromartie 17y ago

You underestimate the power of groups to convince massive numbers of people to act against their own best interests. Just look at the astroturfing going on in the "Tea Party" movement. There is so much big money and influence going on now that it is basically an official branch of the RNC.

josefresco 17y ago
There's also the fact that many (voters) do have insurance and don't want to pay for someone elses when 'they already got theirs'. Once someone has their slice of the American dream, they generally fight all cost/tax increases and change.
- bwh2 17y ago
  I think it's partially that. But it's also partially fear of the unknown. Essentially, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Sure, my health insurance now sucks and I'm terrified they'll drop me, but who knows what would happen if the system changed.
  - pw0ncakes 17y ago
    Most people think their health insurance is great (or at least did until recently) because they've never needed it for anything large. If you're not terribly informed or introspective, and the cost to you of something is hidden (employer pays) and you got $7,500 from your insurance company the one time in 15 years you had a significant medical cost, you're going to think of it as a "benefit". This is similar to the political syndrome where people think their representatives are great; it's all those other slimy bastards who are the problem. Thus, incumbents have a huge advantage and bad politicians rarely get fired.

pragmatic 17y ago

Please define "wildly dysfunctional".

va_coder 17y ago
I recently had a physical therapist look at my 6 month old daughter at G'town hospital in DC for a routine checkup. Before I could see the therapist for a half-hour session I had to interact with 4 different people and sign so much paperwork that I felt like I was buying a house. The system is broken.
munctional 17y ago
The way we use health insurance nowadays is akin to using your car insurance for oil changes and checkups.
- RyanMcGreal 17y ago
  Bollocks. I use my health insurance (publicly funded - I'm Canadian) for oil changes and checkups, and Canada still manages to spend about half, per capita, on health coverage as the US.
  - halostatue 17y ago
    Not only that, but most employers offer supplementary insurance of one form or another to provide for the things not covered by public insurance. Because they don't have to worry about most of the Big Things (except dental and usually optometric), it's far easier and cheaper for them to offer some of the smaller things (massage, orthotics, etc.).
staticshock 17y ago
People call it "dysfunctional" because they conflate the "insurance industry" with the "healthcare indsutry". What exists in the American private sector is not, by any means, a healthcare industry. It is merely an insurance industry. By insurance industry standards, it functions well. By healthcare standards, it's terrifically broken.
17y ago

j_baker 17y ago

The problem is a very vocal minority of people that seem to think the healthcare system will fix itself or works great as it is.

nroach 17y ago
In the US, those people tend to fall into one of a few groups: 1) They're covered by a government plan already (medicare, medicaid) 2) They have a good employer-sponsored plan and don't see the costs. My own parents fall into this category, having worked for basically one company their entire lives and gaining entitlement to that plan on retirement. However, this form of entitlement is rapidly disappearing and I doubt that people entering the workforce today will have this level of benefit. 3) Cost is no object. Some people are fortunate enough to have either made or been born into enough money that a few hundred or a few thousand per month just isn't a big expense. I hope to be in this group some day, but I realize that this segment is never going to be a majority. 4) The terrified. I have a handful of friends that also fall into this group. They are told by their choice of media outlets that the socialists are going to take away their medical care and that the Democrats' bills are just the first on a "slippery slope" to take away their guns and their freedom. Personally, I think the entire concept of employer-based healthcare is a drag on our economy. It puts a very high incentive on remaining in "safe" employment and dissuades people from starting their own ventures or joining a startup. I ran into this recently when trying to hire a developer. Unable to offer health insurance, even the potential rewards of working for a startup weren't enough to offset the risk involved in losing health coverage. This is particularly true in a system where any lapse in coverage can result in permanent ineligibility for future coverage. The U.S. system delivers great care to those who can afford it. Perhaps the current Congressional bills aren't the right solution. But, the overall problem is strangling our competitive advantage. And America's entrepreneurs are at the forefront of this battle. I hope they don't also turn out to be its casualties.
pw0ncakes 17y ago
People who think the healthcare system works great as-is are fucking morons. This is similar to how I can respect someone who conservative on firm intellectual grounds, and who may be a Republican who voted for Bush, even though I don't agree with him; but not someone who liked and supported Bush.

coffeemug 17y ago

Our healthcare industry isn't 'wildly dysfunctional'. I knew an illegal immigrant with metastasized cancer, who had multiple surgeries and whose lifetime was extended by at least five years (vs. what he would have gotten in Ukraine with their 'nationalized' healthcare). He polished shoes for a living and had no health insurance. I believe he paid about $20/month for hospital bills in order to avoid bankruptcy (I'm not sure how the loan process works). I've lived here for thirteen years and haven't heard a single redditesque 'horror' story from anyone I know. If you want/need insurance you can find a way to get it cheaply. If you need medical care, you'll have access to better doctors, better drugs, and better equipment than just about anywhere in the world (not counting EU, as I don't know how your system works in practice). Yeah, our system could use an overhaul, but it is far, far from being 'wildly dysfunctional'.

cjoh 17y ago
I dunno man. When my mom got breast cancer, her health insurance went from $300/mo to $3,000/mo in 30 days! My dad, 10 years her elder came out of retirement at age 70 and went to work for the state of Georgia so that she could get on his insurance plan at work. Thank god my Dad was still alive, and capable of working otherwise she'd be dead. But the point is: That $300/mo wasn't insurance it was a joke. And that $3000/mo wasn't insurance it was extortion. If you think our healthcare industry is fine, well, god bless you. I hope you never have to go what my family went through.
- roc 17y ago
  I find that most people who think the US health system is fine are those who've been lucky enough to either never actually use it, or pay for it.

axod 17y ago

The irony is that America spends so so much on military, and seems to believe that military is something extremely important and should be a public service, but doesn't seem to view basic healthcare the same. Bizarre.

halostatue 17y ago
Interesting side note: while one is in the military, you get damn near first-class health care for you and your family. In this way, at least the most socialistic organization in America is its military. (I'm a U.S. military brat, and took healthcare for granted until I went to University and was no longer covered. Now I'm Canadian and while I don't take healthcare for granted, I'm so glad I don't have to scramble for it the way that too many in the U.S. do.)

jdminhbg 17y ago

Ask Non-Americans: Are you aware that agreeing that something is broken is different from agreeing on how to fix it? Do you not have disagreements in your countries?

RyanMcGreal 17y ago
No major American political party (okay, there are only two of them) will even entertain the obvious solution that everyone else has settled on, albeit via a variety of paths. Say what you want about reasonable people disagreeing with each other; the absence of any institutional support for universal health care is a big red flag that your system is broken.
- jdminhbg 17y ago
  And somehow, it's Americans who get a bad rap for thinking their own solutions should be applied everywhere else.