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The original purpose of IQ tests was not to predict who would go on to the most brilliant career, but to help teachers recognize who would need special help in

by sethg 17y ago

The original purpose of IQ tests was not to predict who would go on to the most brilliant career, but to help teachers recognize who would need special help in classes. In that context I think the distinction between 120, 150, and 180 IQ is meaningful.

cperciva 17y ago
to help teachers recognize who would need special help in classes As opposed to SATs, which were designed to determine who was most likely to succeed in post-secondary education (which again has relatively modest correlation with career success).
WilliamLP 17y ago
The distinction between 150 and 180 IQ is meaningful? Really? If such a difference is reliably measured, and not easily trained by either person (e.g. by devouring a few books on vocabulary and brain puzzlers in the week before the test), then what is the meaningful difference? Both people are going to be bored out of their mind at school and are going to have to be basically self-reliant for their actual learning process for much of their lives. Feynman supposed had an IQ in the low end of that range, and a given person at the higher end probably isn't as smart in any real sense as Feynman was. Whatever the difference is there, it isn't IQ.
- pw0ncakes 17y ago
  I don't know if the distinction between a tested 150 and 180 IQ is meaningful, but that between those levels of intelligence is. I'm in the 150 range; I've met some who are probably in the 180 range (IMO gold medalists) and they are noticeably smarter than I am. That said, even a 200 IQ won't overcome a lackluster work ethic, mental illness, or social adversity (internal or external).
  - nkassis 17y ago
    I'm glad I don't know my IQ, I can keep imagining I'm in the 500 range ;p
    - bitwize 17y ago
      IT'S OVER 9000
- nitrogen 17y ago
  Feynman had the advantage of built-in syntax highlighting, a gift I would absolutely love to have: "When I see equations, I see the letters in colors - I don't know why. As I'm talking, I see vague pictures of Bessel functions from Jahnke and Emde's book, with light-tan j's, slightly violet-bluish n's, and dark brown x's flying around. And I wonder what the hell it must look like to the students." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme%E2%80%93color_synesthesia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme%E2%80%93color_synesthe...
- bitwize 17y ago
  Feynman had an IQ of 127. He wouldn't have gotten into the gifted class I went to as a kid. He was, however, free to think, and act on those thoughts, and these he practiced into an art. That is more marvellous to me than a number on a test.
tokenadult 17y ago
The distinction between 150 (barely recognizable as a validated score on current tests) and 180 (NOT a validated score on any test, ever) is less meaningful than many suppose: "Put into the context of the psychometric movement as a whole, it is clear that positive extreme of the IQ distribution is not as different from other IQ levels as might have been expected. . . . While 180 IQ suggests the ability to do academic work with relative ease, it does not signify a qualitatively different organization of mind. It also does not suggest the presence of ‘genius’ in its common-sense meaning, i.e. transcendent achievement in some field. For these kinds of phenomena, IQ seems at best a crude predictor. For anything more, we will have to look to traditions other than the psychometric and to variables other than IQ." Feldman, David (1984). A Follow-up of Subjects Scoring above 180 IQ in Terman's Genetic Studies of Genius. Exceptional Children, 50, 6, 518-523. IQ scores, especially in childhood, vary over the course of a test-taker’s life, sometimes varying radically. Deviation IQ scoring was originally developed to make for more stability of scores over the course of childhood. Nonetheless, deviation IQs for children can also change considerably over the course of childhood (Pinneau 1961; Truch 1993, page 78; Howe 1998; Deary 2000, table 1.3). "Correlation studies of test scores provide actuarial data, applicable to group predictions. . . . Studies of individuals, on the other hand, may reveal large upward or downward shifts in test scores." (Anastasi & Urbina 1997 p. 326). For example, young people in the famous Lewis Terman longitudinal Genetic Studies of Genius (initial n=1,444 with n=643 in main study group) when tested at high school age (n=503) were found to have dropped 9 IQ points on average in Stanford-Binet IQ. More than two dozen children dropped by 15 IQ points and six by 25 points or more. Parents of those children reported no changes in their children or even that their children were getting brighter (Shurkin 1992, pp. 89-90). Terman observed a similar drop in IQ scores in his study group upon adult IQ testing (Shurkin 1992, pp. 147-150). Samuel R. Pinneau conducted a thorough review of the Berkeley Growth Study (1928-1946; initial n=61, n after eighteen years =40). Alice Moriarty was a Ph.D. researcher at the Menninger Foundation and describes in her book (1966) a number of case studies of longitudinal observations of children's IQ. She observed several subjects whose childhood IQ varied markedly over the course of childhood, and develops hypotheses about why those IQ changes occurred. Anastasi and Urbina (1997, p. 328) point out that childhood IQ scores are poorest at predicting subsequent IQ scores when taken at preschool age. Change in scores over the course of childhood shows that there are powerful environmental effects on IQ (Anastasi & Urbina 1997, p. 327) or perhaps that IQ scores in childhood are not reliable estimates of a child’s scholastic ability. REFERENCES Anastasi, Anne & Urbina, Susana (1997). Psychological Testing. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall. Deary, Ian J. (2000) Looking Down on Human Intelligence: From Psychometrics to the Brain. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Howe, Michael J. A. (1998). Can IQ Change?. The Psychologist, February 1998 pages 69-72. Moriarty, Alice E. (1966). Constancy and IQ Change: A Clinical View of Relationships between Tested IQ and Personality. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas. Pinneau, Samuel R. (1961). Changes in Intelligence Quotient Infancy to Maturity: New Insights from the Berkeley Growth Study with Implications for the Stanford-Binet Scales and Applications to Professional Practice. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. Shurkin, Joel N. (1992). Terman's Kids: The Groundbreaking Study of How the Gifted Grow Up. Boston: Little, Brown. Truch, Steve (1993). The WISC-III(R) Companion: A Guide to Interpretation and Educational Intervention. Austin, TX: Pro-Ed.

by sethg 17y ago

cperciva 17y ago

to help teachers recognize who would need special help in classes As opposed to SATs, which were designed to determine who was most likely to succeed in post-secondary education (which again has relatively modest correlation with career success).

WilliamLP 17y ago

The distinction between 150 and 180 IQ is meaningful? Really? If such a difference is reliably measured, and not easily trained by either person (e.g. by devouring a few books on vocabulary and brain puzzlers in the week before the test), then what is the meaningful difference? Both people are going to be bored out of their mind at school and are going to have to be basically self-reliant for their actual learning process for much of their lives. Feynman supposed had an IQ in the low end of that range, and a given person at the higher end probably isn't as smart in any real sense as Feynman was. Whatever the difference is there, it isn't IQ.

pw0ncakes 17y ago
I don't know if the distinction between a tested 150 and 180 IQ is meaningful, but that between those levels of intelligence is. I'm in the 150 range; I've met some who are probably in the 180 range (IMO gold medalists) and they are noticeably smarter than I am. That said, even a 200 IQ won't overcome a lackluster work ethic, mental illness, or social adversity (internal or external).
- nkassis 17y ago
  I'm glad I don't know my IQ, I can keep imagining I'm in the 500 range ;p
  - bitwize 17y ago
    IT'S OVER 9000
nitrogen 17y ago
Feynman had the advantage of built-in syntax highlighting, a gift I would absolutely love to have: "When I see equations, I see the letters in colors - I don't know why. As I'm talking, I see vague pictures of Bessel functions from Jahnke and Emde's book, with light-tan j's, slightly violet-bluish n's, and dark brown x's flying around. And I wonder what the hell it must look like to the students." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme%E2%80%93color_synesthesia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme%E2%80%93color_synesthe...
bitwize 17y ago
Feynman had an IQ of 127. He wouldn't have gotten into the gifted class I went to as a kid. He was, however, free to think, and act on those thoughts, and these he practiced into an art. That is more marvellous to me than a number on a test.

tokenadult 17y ago

The distinction between 150 (barely recognizable as a validated score on current tests) and 180 (NOT a validated score on any test, ever) is less meaningful than many suppose: "Put into the context of the psychometric movement as a whole, it is clear that positive extreme of the IQ distribution is not as different from other IQ levels as might have been expected. . . . While 180 IQ suggests the ability to do academic work with relative ease, it does not signify a qualitatively different organization of mind. It also does not suggest the presence of ‘genius’ in its common-sense meaning, i.e. transcendent achievement in some field. For these kinds of phenomena, IQ seems at best a crude predictor. For anything more, we will have to look to traditions other than the psychometric and to variables other than IQ." Feldman, David (1984). A Follow-up of Subjects Scoring above 180 IQ in Terman's Genetic Studies of Genius. Exceptional Children, 50, 6, 518-523. IQ scores, especially in childhood, vary over the course of a test-taker’s life, sometimes varying radically. Deviation IQ scoring was originally developed to make for more stability of scores over the course of childhood. Nonetheless, deviation IQs for children can also change considerably over the course of childhood (Pinneau 1961; Truch 1993, page 78; Howe 1998; Deary 2000, table 1.3). "Correlation studies of test scores provide actuarial data, applicable to group predictions. . . . Studies of individuals, on the other hand, may reveal large upward or downward shifts in test scores." (Anastasi & Urbina 1997 p. 326). For example, young people in the famous Lewis Terman longitudinal Genetic Studies of Genius (initial n=1,444 with n=643 in main study group) when tested at high school age (n=503) were found to have dropped 9 IQ points on average in Stanford-Binet IQ. More than two dozen children dropped by 15 IQ points and six by 25 points or more. Parents of those children reported no changes in their children or even that their children were getting brighter (Shurkin 1992, pp. 89-90). Terman observed a similar drop in IQ scores in his study group upon adult IQ testing (Shurkin 1992, pp. 147-150). Samuel R. Pinneau conducted a thorough review of the Berkeley Growth Study (1928-1946; initial n=61, n after eighteen years =40). Alice Moriarty was a Ph.D. researcher at the Menninger Foundation and describes in her book (1966) a number of case studies of longitudinal observations of children's IQ. She observed several subjects whose childhood IQ varied markedly over the course of childhood, and develops hypotheses about why those IQ changes occurred. Anastasi and Urbina (1997, p. 328) point out that childhood IQ scores are poorest at predicting subsequent IQ scores when taken at preschool age. Change in scores over the course of childhood shows that there are powerful environmental effects on IQ (Anastasi & Urbina 1997, p. 327) or perhaps that IQ scores in childhood are not reliable estimates of a child’s scholastic ability. REFERENCES Anastasi, Anne & Urbina, Susana (1997). Psychological Testing. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall. Deary, Ian J. (2000) Looking Down on Human Intelligence: From Psychometrics to the Brain. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Howe, Michael J. A. (1998). Can IQ Change?. The Psychologist, February 1998 pages 69-72. Moriarty, Alice E. (1966). Constancy and IQ Change: A Clinical View of Relationships between Tested IQ and Personality. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas. Pinneau, Samuel R. (1961). Changes in Intelligence Quotient Infancy to Maturity: New Insights from the Berkeley Growth Study with Implications for the Stanford-Binet Scales and Applications to Professional Practice. Boston: Houghton Mifflin. Shurkin, Joel N. (1992). Terman's Kids: The Groundbreaking Study of How the Gifted Grow Up. Boston: Little, Brown. Truch, Steve (1993). The WISC-III(R) Companion: A Guide to Interpretation and Educational Intervention. Austin, TX: Pro-Ed.