4 ms·

I agree with the general advice, especially with the Starting Strength recommendation, but the milk advice (also from this book), speaking from own experience,

by stiff 17y ago

I agree with the general advice, especially with the Starting Strength recommendation, but the milk advice (also from this book), speaking from own experience, is a recipe for disaster unless you are aiming for a powerlifting physique, with plenty of muscle hidden underneath plenty of fat or unless you are __really skinny__. "Starting strength" is great for exercise technique, but go also get a good nutrition book and make sure you are actually following a nutrition plan in the same way you are following an exercise program. It's easier to do it then it is to loose the fat belly afterwards, or to get rid of the stretch marks from a too rapid weight gain.

philk 17y ago
Losing fat isn't all that hard. You keep lifting heavy weights and subtract ~250 kCal a day from your diet. If you aren't losing much [1] weight, you subtract another ~250 kCal/day and so on. They heavy weights are there to persuade your body to hang onto muscle which is metabolically expensive and therefore eliminated if not used. I'm curious how much you were eating to wind up with loads of fat. I've put on ~40 lbs in the last year and still have a six pack [2]. [1] much is a maximum of 1 lb a week. [2] In favorable lighting.
- stiff 17y ago
  It doesn't work this way, at least not for everyone (genetics), exactly because of the muscle loss that occurs when you decrease caloric intake. Of course you can prevent it in some ways, but then it is no longer just "subtracting 250 kCal". Nutrition is complex, so I would not give advice this simplified about it, as it can get you in trouble, just as putting 15lbs weight in a month. Maybe you have good genetics, or already follow a well-balanced diet, but people who follow your advice not necessarily so, they should thus pay more attention to this aspect of "training". I learned this lesson the hard way, so I wish the advice in "Starting Strength" would be more balanced in this respect.
  - philk 17y ago
    The Rippetoe stuff should generally be applied such that you gradually increase your intake until you're putting on enough weight, and back off if you're gaining fat too quickly. And for the majority of Rippetoe's target audience, that is young skinny guys, getting enough calories is more important than the right calories. I'm curious as to whether you just started drinking a gallon of milk every day from the get go? Because I imagine that adding ~2800 kCal to your maintenance diet would tend to pile on rather more fat than usual. Also I'd assume that the average HNer could put together a diet that's pretty reasonable with minimal preparation, however, here's a few pointers I've followed... General diet guidelines: a) For optimal health, the fewer calories you eat without starving or failing to satisfy nutritional requirements the better (ie caloric restriction). Hence eating to gain weight, even muscle, probably necessitates a sub-optimal strategy. b) Body transformation is made in the kitchen, not the gym. If you eat less than maintenance calories you'll lose weight, more than maintenance calories you'll gain weight and make better strength gains. Heavy weightlifting is a must to begin with, but your work in the kitchen determines your outcome. c) Don't eat processed food. It's normally High GI and full of crap [1]. d) Eat six small meals each day, at even intervals. This seems to work better than three large meals. Of course, if you're bulking, then you'll be eating six large meals each day and feeling sick most of the time. e) Eat lots of non-starchy vegetables and some fruit. Vegetables implies things like broccoli and spinach. For fruit aim for things like berries. More vegetables than fruit because you can overdo the fructose. f) Eat plenty of fish, nuts, avocadoes and other healthy fats. If you need to boost your calories further a shot (30 mL) of olive oil is ~ 250 kCal and only takes a minute. g) Eat fewer carbs, and make sure they're low GI. Hence things like lentils, brown rice, quinoa, etc. Eat carbs early in the day as they seem to give you more energy. h) Another fine protein source is skinless chicken breasts. I boil mine and throw away the fat that floats to the top. Eggs [2] can also provide lots of protein. i) Full fat milk is awesome for gaining weight as it is quick to drink and provides quick calories. j) Diets continue in perpetuity. It's like showering or brushing your teeth. You don't brush your teeth twelve times a day for a month then say "well, that's taken care of" and never brush them again. k) Post workout (for all the good post workout nutrition does) drink something with carbs and protein. I generally go for a liter of milk. l) If you're trying to reduce your caloric intake, replace food with things that are calorically sparse. If you eat a big salad [3] before each meal you'll reduce the number of calories you can get through without feeling hungry. m) If you're trying to eat more and can't get through the food, buy a really good blender and drink as much as possible. [1] I'd chiefly be worried about salt and high-fructose corn syrup. A lot of the threatening looking stuff on the label isn't, but it's a pain in the ass to figure that out. [2] I'm not sure whether they're good or bad for you today. [3] With no dressing or something with minimal calories if you aren't hard enough. Potentially many of these could be debated as nutrition is a bit of a clusterfuck of contradictory information, but I'm reasonably confident in them.

by stiff 17y ago

philk 17y ago

Losing fat isn't all that hard. You keep lifting heavy weights and subtract ~250 kCal a day from your diet. If you aren't losing much [1] weight, you subtract another ~250 kCal/day and so on. They heavy weights are there to persuade your body to hang onto muscle which is metabolically expensive and therefore eliminated if not used. I'm curious how much you were eating to wind up with loads of fat. I've put on ~40 lbs in the last year and still have a six pack [2]. [1] much is a maximum of 1 lb a week. [2] In favorable lighting.

stiff 17y ago
It doesn't work this way, at least not for everyone (genetics), exactly because of the muscle loss that occurs when you decrease caloric intake. Of course you can prevent it in some ways, but then it is no longer just "subtracting 250 kCal". Nutrition is complex, so I would not give advice this simplified about it, as it can get you in trouble, just as putting 15lbs weight in a month. Maybe you have good genetics, or already follow a well-balanced diet, but people who follow your advice not necessarily so, they should thus pay more attention to this aspect of "training". I learned this lesson the hard way, so I wish the advice in "Starting Strength" would be more balanced in this respect.
- philk 17y ago
  The Rippetoe stuff should generally be applied such that you gradually increase your intake until you're putting on enough weight, and back off if you're gaining fat too quickly. And for the majority of Rippetoe's target audience, that is young skinny guys, getting enough calories is more important than the right calories. I'm curious as to whether you just started drinking a gallon of milk every day from the get go? Because I imagine that adding ~2800 kCal to your maintenance diet would tend to pile on rather more fat than usual. Also I'd assume that the average HNer could put together a diet that's pretty reasonable with minimal preparation, however, here's a few pointers I've followed... General diet guidelines: a) For optimal health, the fewer calories you eat without starving or failing to satisfy nutritional requirements the better (ie caloric restriction). Hence eating to gain weight, even muscle, probably necessitates a sub-optimal strategy. b) Body transformation is made in the kitchen, not the gym. If you eat less than maintenance calories you'll lose weight, more than maintenance calories you'll gain weight and make better strength gains. Heavy weightlifting is a must to begin with, but your work in the kitchen determines your outcome. c) Don't eat processed food. It's normally High GI and full of crap [1]. d) Eat six small meals each day, at even intervals. This seems to work better than three large meals. Of course, if you're bulking, then you'll be eating six large meals each day and feeling sick most of the time. e) Eat lots of non-starchy vegetables and some fruit. Vegetables implies things like broccoli and spinach. For fruit aim for things like berries. More vegetables than fruit because you can overdo the fructose. f) Eat plenty of fish, nuts, avocadoes and other healthy fats. If you need to boost your calories further a shot (30 mL) of olive oil is ~ 250 kCal and only takes a minute. g) Eat fewer carbs, and make sure they're low GI. Hence things like lentils, brown rice, quinoa, etc. Eat carbs early in the day as they seem to give you more energy. h) Another fine protein source is skinless chicken breasts. I boil mine and throw away the fat that floats to the top. Eggs [2] can also provide lots of protein. i) Full fat milk is awesome for gaining weight as it is quick to drink and provides quick calories. j) Diets continue in perpetuity. It's like showering or brushing your teeth. You don't brush your teeth twelve times a day for a month then say "well, that's taken care of" and never brush them again. k) Post workout (for all the good post workout nutrition does) drink something with carbs and protein. I generally go for a liter of milk. l) If you're trying to reduce your caloric intake, replace food with things that are calorically sparse. If you eat a big salad [3] before each meal you'll reduce the number of calories you can get through without feeling hungry. m) If you're trying to eat more and can't get through the food, buy a really good blender and drink as much as possible. [1] I'd chiefly be worried about salt and high-fructose corn syrup. A lot of the threatening looking stuff on the label isn't, but it's a pain in the ass to figure that out. [2] I'm not sure whether they're good or bad for you today. [3] With no dressing or something with minimal calories if you aren't hard enough. Potentially many of these could be debated as nutrition is a bit of a clusterfuck of contradictory information, but I'm reasonably confident in them.