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This is a government development project. Do you really think they're getting the C++11 features that make writing C++ half-pleasant? It's more likely that some

This is a government development project. Do you really think they're getting the C++11 features that make writing C++ half-pleasant? It's more likely that some PM tried to define a "sane subset of C++", with templates explicitly banned. Now they can't use STL containers or unique_ptr, and they're basically writing C with classes.

duaneb 10y ago
NASA basically uses the approach you patronize so easily. And while I'm not arguing that it's practical to take this approach, defensive coding techniques allow reliable code to be written in environments that wouldn't be considered safe today... like the Apollo Guidance Computer. So yea, I don't consider it useful to finger C++ when there were clearly many poor decisions made at all levels of the engineering stack.
- willtim 10y ago
  The Apollo Guidance computer wasn't anywhere near the scale and complexity of the F35 software. I'm also fairly certain the Apollo mission did not pick their technologies based on "programmer availability".
  - engi_nerd 10y ago
    I wish the source for "programmer availability" hadn't evaporated into the ether, because I'd love to see it. I wonder if it meant "The guys who know Ada are all furiously writing F-22 software" -- parenthetical aside, the F-22 was in flight testing and development during the same years that the F-35 project was getting underway, so there would have been high demand for people experienced with developing mission critical flight software -- "and therefore we have to go with the guys we can spare, who mostly know C++ or Java or something". Or did they mean "No one coming out of school knows Ada anymore so let's go with a more widely known language"?
    - willtim 10y ago
      Are you predicting that the next US fighter after F35 will be powered by Python? Because that's what US institutions like MIT now teach.
      - engi_nerd 10y ago
        No, I make no predictions about this sort of thing.
- kps 10y ago
  And yet the Apollo Guidance Computer system famously failed during the Apollo 11 landing. The software met its spec, but the spec was wrong.
pjmlp 10y ago
They are using this C++ dialect: http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/down_documentation.htm http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/down_documentation.htm
- koenigdavidmj 10y ago
  That particular link is a 404.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    This one is working, http://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf http://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf

duaneb 10y ago

NASA basically uses the approach you patronize so easily. And while I'm not arguing that it's practical to take this approach, defensive coding techniques allow reliable code to be written in environments that wouldn't be considered safe today... like the Apollo Guidance Computer. So yea, I don't consider it useful to finger C++ when there were clearly many poor decisions made at all levels of the engineering stack.

willtim 10y ago
The Apollo Guidance computer wasn't anywhere near the scale and complexity of the F35 software. I'm also fairly certain the Apollo mission did not pick their technologies based on "programmer availability".
- engi_nerd 10y ago
  I wish the source for "programmer availability" hadn't evaporated into the ether, because I'd love to see it. I wonder if it meant "The guys who know Ada are all furiously writing F-22 software" -- parenthetical aside, the F-22 was in flight testing and development during the same years that the F-35 project was getting underway, so there would have been high demand for people experienced with developing mission critical flight software -- "and therefore we have to go with the guys we can spare, who mostly know C++ or Java or something". Or did they mean "No one coming out of school knows Ada anymore so let's go with a more widely known language"?
  - willtim 10y ago
    Are you predicting that the next US fighter after F35 will be powered by Python? Because that's what US institutions like MIT now teach.
    - engi_nerd 10y ago
      No, I make no predictions about this sort of thing.
kps 10y ago
And yet the Apollo Guidance Computer system famously failed during the Apollo 11 landing. The software met its spec, but the spec was wrong.

pjmlp 10y ago

They are using this C++ dialect: http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/down_documentation.htm http://www.jsf.mil/downloads/down_documentation.htm

koenigdavidmj 10y ago
That particular link is a 404.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  This one is working, http://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf http://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf