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I'm having a hard time imagining how push-up routines can match the muscle building power of heavy squats and deadlifts.

by philk 17y ago

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- philk 17y ago
  Neat book, but I'm still not seeing it. And even including the huge variety of weird gymnastics holds [1] out there I'm not sure how you can compare with a squat or deadlift with 300+lbs of weight. For example, a full squat works the thighs, calves (somewhat), and core very hard. A deadlift works the hamstrings, core, lats and forearms very hard. At the very least the panopoly of push-ups out there will have real trouble working most of your lower body, and heavy compound exercises tend to help development of your upper body too. [1] There's a book called "Building the Olympic Body" by Coach Sommer that has a whole lot of nifty gymnastics stuff in it, but it requires rings and other equipment.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
TNO 17y ago
Stand on your head and start pushing.
- tjogin 17y ago
  And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a single pushup like that)? It's well established science that you should be doing about 5-15 repetitions per set, depending on whether you're focusing on hypertrophy or strength (overkill for non-professionals to even make the distinction, just stay between 8-12) — if you can do more than that then the exercise does not offer enough resistance, and if you can't do enough repetitions then likewise it's suboptimal (just like trying to lift a truck is a suboptimal exercise). So, whenever your exercise using your own body weight as resistance offers you just the right amount of resistance to keep you within that range, then it's great. Most of the time though, it will be well outside of that range — so in the general case, using body weight as resistance is bad advice.
  - stonemetal 17y ago
    And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a single pushup like that)? Incline and Decline Pushups. At the top of a standard pushup you are holding in the mid 60s % of your body weight on your hands. At the bottom in the mid 70s % of your body weight. Changing the angles changes that value. Of course that still doesn't work out your legs but squats and other exercises with out weights do pretty well for most general purpose needs.
    - tjogin 17y ago
      It also changes what muscles you are exercising. A 100% inclined pushup works your shoulders significantly more than your chest, while a normal pushup exercises your chest more. It makes it a completely different exercise altogether — the shoulder press exercise is not a substitute for the bench press and is nowhere near as efficient an exercise to build your chest muscles.
enjo 17y ago
For most folks it can't. I believe most people spend far to much time on Cardio, and not nearly enough time developing their muscles. You get so much benefit in terms of metabolic changes from muscle building that it should be a part of any work-out. Cardio is important, no question. If your goal, however, is to change your physique you will get much more mileage from weight-lifting. This includes just a general weight-loss goal. Really, I try to shoot for the fitness tri-fecta: * Eat right (in my case a high calorie diet with lots of vegetables protein, and dietary fat) * Build muscle (by lifting heavy objects multiple times, primarily through big compound exercises like squats and dead-lifts) * Build endurance with a cardio program (I alternate with my muscle building program)
greenlblue 17y ago
Lifting weights adds too much "heavy" muscle and not enough "lean" muscle which I think technically is known as twitch muscle. I have tried both lifting heavy weights and just simple exercises combined with flexibility training that just involve using my own body as a source of resistance and I can tell you without a doubt that I feel way better when I have more twitch/lean type of muscles.
xiaoma 17y ago
I believe what greenblue meant by "almost everything he mentions" was better health, longer life and better looks, and possibly the bit about mental benefits. And at least in terms of longevity, cognitive benefits, lowering risks for lifestyle diseases and , stress relief, cardio has a mountain of positive research backing it. For looks, it depends on what you're after. Not many male models are hulking gym rats, though.

I'm having a hard time imagining how push-up routines can match the muscle building power of heavy squats and deadlifts.

by philk 17y ago

I'm having a hard time imagining how push-up routines can match the muscle building power of heavy squats and deadlifts.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

philk 17y ago
Neat book, but I'm still not seeing it. And even including the huge variety of weird gymnastics holds [1] out there I'm not sure how you can compare with a squat or deadlift with 300+lbs of weight. For example, a full squat works the thighs, calves (somewhat), and core very hard. A deadlift works the hamstrings, core, lats and forearms very hard. At the very least the panopoly of push-ups out there will have real trouble working most of your lower body, and heavy compound exercises tend to help development of your upper body too. [1] There's a book called "Building the Olympic Body" by Coach Sommer that has a whole lot of nifty gymnastics stuff in it, but it requires rings and other equipment.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]

TNO 17y ago

Stand on your head and start pushing.

tjogin 17y ago
And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a single pushup like that)? It's well established science that you should be doing about 5-15 repetitions per set, depending on whether you're focusing on hypertrophy or strength (overkill for non-professionals to even make the distinction, just stay between 8-12) — if you can do more than that then the exercise does not offer enough resistance, and if you can't do enough repetitions then likewise it's suboptimal (just like trying to lift a truck is a suboptimal exercise). So, whenever your exercise using your own body weight as resistance offers you just the right amount of resistance to keep you within that range, then it's great. Most of the time though, it will be well outside of that range — so in the general case, using body weight as resistance is bad advice.
- stonemetal 17y ago
  And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a single pushup like that)? Incline and Decline Pushups. At the top of a standard pushup you are holding in the mid 60s % of your body weight on your hands. At the bottom in the mid 70s % of your body weight. Changing the angles changes that value. Of course that still doesn't work out your legs but squats and other exercises with out weights do pretty well for most general purpose needs.
  - tjogin 17y ago
    It also changes what muscles you are exercising. A 100% inclined pushup works your shoulders significantly more than your chest, while a normal pushup exercises your chest more. It makes it a completely different exercise altogether — the shoulder press exercise is not a substitute for the bench press and is nowhere near as efficient an exercise to build your chest muscles.

enjo 17y ago

For most folks it can't. I believe most people spend far to much time on Cardio, and not nearly enough time developing their muscles. You get so much benefit in terms of metabolic changes from muscle building that it should be a part of any work-out. Cardio is important, no question. If your goal, however, is to change your physique you will get much more mileage from weight-lifting. This includes just a general weight-loss goal. Really, I try to shoot for the fitness tri-fecta: * Eat right (in my case a high calorie diet with lots of vegetables protein, and dietary fat) * Build muscle (by lifting heavy objects multiple times, primarily through big compound exercises like squats and dead-lifts) * Build endurance with a cardio program (I alternate with my muscle building program)

greenlblue 17y ago

Lifting weights adds too much "heavy" muscle and not enough "lean" muscle which I think technically is known as twitch muscle. I have tried both lifting heavy weights and just simple exercises combined with flexibility training that just involve using my own body as a source of resistance and I can tell you without a doubt that I feel way better when I have more twitch/lean type of muscles.

xiaoma 17y ago

I believe what greenblue meant by "almost everything he mentions" was better health, longer life and better looks, and possibly the bit about mental benefits. And at least in terms of longevity, cognitive benefits, lowering risks for lifestyle diseases and , stress relief, cardio has a mountain of positive research backing it. For looks, it depends on what you're after. Not many male models are hulking gym rats, though.