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In my experience cardiovascular exercise is way better for almost everything he mentions and for strength training one doesn't really need weights, various push

In my experience cardiovascular exercise is way better for almost everything he mentions and for strength training one doesn't really need weights, various push-up routines are more than enough.

philk 17y ago
I'm having a hard time imagining how push-up routines can match the muscle building power of heavy squats and deadlifts.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
  - philk 17y ago
    Neat book, but I'm still not seeing it. And even including the huge variety of weird gymnastics holds [1] out there I'm not sure how you can compare with a squat or deadlift with 300+lbs of weight. For example, a full squat works the thighs, calves (somewhat), and core very hard. A deadlift works the hamstrings, core, lats and forearms very hard. At the very least the panopoly of push-ups out there will have real trouble working most of your lower body, and heavy compound exercises tend to help development of your upper body too. [1] There's a book called "Building the Olympic Body" by Coach Sommer that has a whole lot of nifty gymnastics stuff in it, but it requires rings and other equipment.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
- TNO 17y ago
  Stand on your head and start pushing.
  - tjogin 17y ago
    And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a single pushup like that)? It's well established science that you should be doing about 5-15 repetitions per set, depending on whether you're focusing on hypertrophy or strength (overkill for non-professionals to even make the distinction, just stay between 8-12) — if you can do more than that then the exercise does not offer enough resistance, and if you can't do enough repetitions then likewise it's suboptimal (just like trying to lift a truck is a suboptimal exercise). So, whenever your exercise using your own body weight as resistance offers you just the right amount of resistance to keep you within that range, then it's great. Most of the time though, it will be well outside of that range — so in the general case, using body weight as resistance is bad advice.
    - stonemetal 17y ago
      And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a single pushup like that)? Incline and Decline Pushups. At the top of a standard pushup you are holding in the mid 60s % of your body weight on your hands. At the bottom in the mid 70s % of your body weight. Changing the angles changes that value. Of course that still doesn't work out your legs but squats and other exercises with out weights do pretty well for most general purpose needs.
      - tjogin 17y ago
        It also changes what muscles you are exercising. A 100% inclined pushup works your shoulders significantly more than your chest, while a normal pushup exercises your chest more. It makes it a completely different exercise altogether — the shoulder press exercise is not a substitute for the bench press and is nowhere near as efficient an exercise to build your chest muscles.
- enjo 17y ago
  For most folks it can't. I believe most people spend far to much time on Cardio, and not nearly enough time developing their muscles. You get so much benefit in terms of metabolic changes from muscle building that it should be a part of any work-out. Cardio is important, no question. If your goal, however, is to change your physique you will get much more mileage from weight-lifting. This includes just a general weight-loss goal. Really, I try to shoot for the fitness tri-fecta: * Eat right (in my case a high calorie diet with lots of vegetables protein, and dietary fat) * Build muscle (by lifting heavy objects multiple times, primarily through big compound exercises like squats and dead-lifts) * Build endurance with a cardio program (I alternate with my muscle building program)
- greenlblue 17y ago
  Lifting weights adds too much "heavy" muscle and not enough "lean" muscle which I think technically is known as twitch muscle. I have tried both lifting heavy weights and just simple exercises combined with flexibility training that just involve using my own body as a source of resistance and I can tell you without a doubt that I feel way better when I have more twitch/lean type of muscles.
- xiaoma 17y ago
  I believe what greenblue meant by "almost everything he mentions" was better health, longer life and better looks, and possibly the bit about mental benefits. And at least in terms of longevity, cognitive benefits, lowering risks for lifestyle diseases and , stress relief, cardio has a mountain of positive research backing it. For looks, it depends on what you're after. Not many male models are hulking gym rats, though.
nazgulnarsil 17y ago
dips are more effective than pushups. weighted dips and weighted pullups are highly effective.
hendzen 17y ago
There is no point of doing "various push-up routines" if you want to build strength. If your goal is "strength training" lifting weights is the most effective way of doing it.
tjogin 17y ago
The main activity that makes your body gain muscle is to subject it to exceptional amounts of work — that is to say, a lot more work than it is used to (combined with the intake of the necessary fuel to facilitate it). It should be reasonably simple to understand that using your own bodyweight as resistance is a very inefficient means by which to achieve this. Not only do you need to use weights to reach a level of efficiency, you need to also continuously push yourself harder all the time, or else your development curve will flatten.
- greenlblue 17y ago
  I disagree. The only thing gymnasts do is use their own bodyweight and as far as athletes go in terms of endurance and pound for pound muscle strength they can not be beat.
  - tjogin 17y ago
    Gymnasts are not at all as efficient about building muscle mass as body builders are. Gymnasts achieve great physical results in time, but nowhere near as efficiently as body builders do. This should not come as a surprise to anyone — for gymnasts, building muscle is a means to an end, and they don't want to build any extra muscle as that just weighs them down. For body builders, building muscle mass is everything.
    - greenlblue 17y ago
      The whole point of the article was about health/well-being through exercise and my point is that the gymnasts strike a very happy balance between strength/fitness and well-being. Whereas body builders exceed a lot of bounds and maintaining that much heavy/slow twitch muscle mass can be detrimental to one's health.
      - tjogin 17y ago
        Becoming a gymnast is not a realistic way of adding muscle mass, unless this epiphany strikes you at about the age of seven. Even if you do decide to go the gymnast route, you'll still be lifting weights (though not until you've been at it for years, and you probably won't be making some newbie gym mistakes like prioritizing biceps), it'll just take longer to achieve results because you're mostly focused on acquiring the skill and technique to do actual gymnastics. As for your other claim, body builders do not accidentally add too much muscle. It is a wide-spread fear among people who don't exercise at all, but it does not actually happen. You absolutely, positively, won't wake up one day and realize that you've accidentally put on too much muscle. Accidentally putting on so much muscle as to be detrimental to your health would be akin to walking home from school or work and suddenly realizing you accidentally walked around planet earth and the soles of your feet have been completely worn down — you will not suddenly complete a journey that takes most people extreme dedication and hard work over many many years.

In my experience cardiovascular exercise is way better for almost everything he mentions and for strength training one doesn't really need weights, various push-up routines are more than enough.

philk 17y ago

I'm having a hard time imagining how push-up routines can match the muscle building power of heavy squats and deadlifts.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- philk 17y ago
  Neat book, but I'm still not seeing it. And even including the huge variety of weird gymnastics holds [1] out there I'm not sure how you can compare with a squat or deadlift with 300+lbs of weight. For example, a full squat works the thighs, calves (somewhat), and core very hard. A deadlift works the hamstrings, core, lats and forearms very hard. At the very least the panopoly of push-ups out there will have real trouble working most of your lower body, and heavy compound exercises tend to help development of your upper body too. [1] There's a book called "Building the Olympic Body" by Coach Sommer that has a whole lot of nifty gymnastics stuff in it, but it requires rings and other equipment.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
TNO 17y ago
Stand on your head and start pushing.
- tjogin 17y ago
  And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a single pushup like that)? It's well established science that you should be doing about 5-15 repetitions per set, depending on whether you're focusing on hypertrophy or strength (overkill for non-professionals to even make the distinction, just stay between 8-12) — if you can do more than that then the exercise does not offer enough resistance, and if you can't do enough repetitions then likewise it's suboptimal (just like trying to lift a truck is a suboptimal exercise). So, whenever your exercise using your own body weight as resistance offers you just the right amount of resistance to keep you within that range, then it's great. Most of the time though, it will be well outside of that range — so in the general case, using body weight as resistance is bad advice.
  - stonemetal 17y ago
    And when you've developed the strength to do that, how do you increase the resistance (and how do you develop the strength when you can't even do a single pushup like that)? Incline and Decline Pushups. At the top of a standard pushup you are holding in the mid 60s % of your body weight on your hands. At the bottom in the mid 70s % of your body weight. Changing the angles changes that value. Of course that still doesn't work out your legs but squats and other exercises with out weights do pretty well for most general purpose needs.
    - tjogin 17y ago
      It also changes what muscles you are exercising. A 100% inclined pushup works your shoulders significantly more than your chest, while a normal pushup exercises your chest more. It makes it a completely different exercise altogether — the shoulder press exercise is not a substitute for the bench press and is nowhere near as efficient an exercise to build your chest muscles.
enjo 17y ago
For most folks it can't. I believe most people spend far to much time on Cardio, and not nearly enough time developing their muscles. You get so much benefit in terms of metabolic changes from muscle building that it should be a part of any work-out. Cardio is important, no question. If your goal, however, is to change your physique you will get much more mileage from weight-lifting. This includes just a general weight-loss goal. Really, I try to shoot for the fitness tri-fecta: * Eat right (in my case a high calorie diet with lots of vegetables protein, and dietary fat) * Build muscle (by lifting heavy objects multiple times, primarily through big compound exercises like squats and dead-lifts) * Build endurance with a cardio program (I alternate with my muscle building program)
greenlblue 17y ago
Lifting weights adds too much "heavy" muscle and not enough "lean" muscle which I think technically is known as twitch muscle. I have tried both lifting heavy weights and just simple exercises combined with flexibility training that just involve using my own body as a source of resistance and I can tell you without a doubt that I feel way better when I have more twitch/lean type of muscles.
xiaoma 17y ago
I believe what greenblue meant by "almost everything he mentions" was better health, longer life and better looks, and possibly the bit about mental benefits. And at least in terms of longevity, cognitive benefits, lowering risks for lifestyle diseases and , stress relief, cardio has a mountain of positive research backing it. For looks, it depends on what you're after. Not many male models are hulking gym rats, though.

nazgulnarsil 17y ago

dips are more effective than pushups. weighted dips and weighted pullups are highly effective.

hendzen 17y ago

There is no point of doing "various push-up routines" if you want to build strength. If your goal is "strength training" lifting weights is the most effective way of doing it.

tjogin 17y ago

The main activity that makes your body gain muscle is to subject it to exceptional amounts of work — that is to say, a lot more work than it is used to (combined with the intake of the necessary fuel to facilitate it). It should be reasonably simple to understand that using your own bodyweight as resistance is a very inefficient means by which to achieve this. Not only do you need to use weights to reach a level of efficiency, you need to also continuously push yourself harder all the time, or else your development curve will flatten.

greenlblue 17y ago
I disagree. The only thing gymnasts do is use their own bodyweight and as far as athletes go in terms of endurance and pound for pound muscle strength they can not be beat.
- tjogin 17y ago
  Gymnasts are not at all as efficient about building muscle mass as body builders are. Gymnasts achieve great physical results in time, but nowhere near as efficiently as body builders do. This should not come as a surprise to anyone — for gymnasts, building muscle is a means to an end, and they don't want to build any extra muscle as that just weighs them down. For body builders, building muscle mass is everything.
  - greenlblue 17y ago
    The whole point of the article was about health/well-being through exercise and my point is that the gymnasts strike a very happy balance between strength/fitness and well-being. Whereas body builders exceed a lot of bounds and maintaining that much heavy/slow twitch muscle mass can be detrimental to one's health.
    - tjogin 17y ago
      Becoming a gymnast is not a realistic way of adding muscle mass, unless this epiphany strikes you at about the age of seven. Even if you do decide to go the gymnast route, you'll still be lifting weights (though not until you've been at it for years, and you probably won't be making some newbie gym mistakes like prioritizing biceps), it'll just take longer to achieve results because you're mostly focused on acquiring the skill and technique to do actual gymnastics. As for your other claim, body builders do not accidentally add too much muscle. It is a wide-spread fear among people who don't exercise at all, but it does not actually happen. You absolutely, positively, won't wake up one day and realize that you've accidentally put on too much muscle. Accidentally putting on so much muscle as to be detrimental to your health would be akin to walking home from school or work and suddenly realizing you accidentally walked around planet earth and the soles of your feet have been completely worn down — you will not suddenly complete a journey that takes most people extreme dedication and hard work over many many years.