3 ms·

Good stuff although the rep scheme isn't optimal. I'd stick to sets of fives. A few additional points: a) Form, particularly on Squats & Deadlifts, is key.

by philk 17y ago

Good stuff although the rep scheme isn't optimal. I'd stick to sets of fives. A few additional points: a) Form, particularly on Squats & Deadlifts, is key. If you do them wrong you'll fuck yourself up. The stuff by Mark Rippetoe, particularly Starting Strength, is awesome for this. b) If you want to make progress you'll need to consume a surplus of calories. A good way to do this is to add full fat milk to your diet (a liter of full fat milk is approximately ~700 kCal). If you aren't gaining, eat more. If you're a young, skinny guy just starting out it's very easy to put on 15 lbs in a month[1] from squatting three times each week and drinking a fuckload of milk. c) The advice on lowering the bar slowly then exploding upwards is mostly crap. Just move the weight under control. [1] Some of this will be fat but most will be muscle.

enjo 17y ago
On top of that: If you don't build muscle very easily, then you need to be careful with extraneous physical activity. As an ectomorph, I find that I need ALL of my 4500 daily calories to build muscle. I generally lift 3 times a week with a 4th day of dedicated to cardio at the end of the week. I rotate between 4 week sets of cardio/muscle-building as well. That works well for me. The authors suggestion of doing daily cardio might very well be sabotaging your results.
- tjogin 17y ago
  It's well established science that cardio has a net negative effect on muscle gain.
stiff 17y ago
I agree with the general advice, especially with the Starting Strength recommendation, but the milk advice (also from this book), speaking from own experience, is a recipe for disaster unless you are aiming for a powerlifting physique, with plenty of muscle hidden underneath plenty of fat or unless you are __really skinny__. "Starting strength" is great for exercise technique, but go also get a good nutrition book and make sure you are actually following a nutrition plan in the same way you are following an exercise program. It's easier to do it then it is to loose the fat belly afterwards, or to get rid of the stretch marks from a too rapid weight gain.
- philk 17y ago
  Losing fat isn't all that hard. You keep lifting heavy weights and subtract ~250 kCal a day from your diet. If you aren't losing much [1] weight, you subtract another ~250 kCal/day and so on. They heavy weights are there to persuade your body to hang onto muscle which is metabolically expensive and therefore eliminated if not used. I'm curious how much you were eating to wind up with loads of fat. I've put on ~40 lbs in the last year and still have a six pack [2]. [1] much is a maximum of 1 lb a week. [2] In favorable lighting.
  - stiff 17y ago
    It doesn't work this way, at least not for everyone (genetics), exactly because of the muscle loss that occurs when you decrease caloric intake. Of course you can prevent it in some ways, but then it is no longer just "subtracting 250 kCal". Nutrition is complex, so I would not give advice this simplified about it, as it can get you in trouble, just as putting 15lbs weight in a month. Maybe you have good genetics, or already follow a well-balanced diet, but people who follow your advice not necessarily so, they should thus pay more attention to this aspect of "training". I learned this lesson the hard way, so I wish the advice in "Starting Strength" would be more balanced in this respect.
    - philk 17y ago
      The Rippetoe stuff should generally be applied such that you gradually increase your intake until you're putting on enough weight, and back off if you're gaining fat too quickly. And for the majority of Rippetoe's target audience, that is young skinny guys, getting enough calories is more important than the right calories. I'm curious as to whether you just started drinking a gallon of milk every day from the get go? Because I imagine that adding ~2800 kCal to your maintenance diet would tend to pile on rather more fat than usual. Also I'd assume that the average HNer could put together a diet that's pretty reasonable with minimal preparation, however, here's a few pointers I've followed... General diet guidelines: a) For optimal health, the fewer calories you eat without starving or failing to satisfy nutritional requirements the better (ie caloric restriction). Hence eating to gain weight, even muscle, probably necessitates a sub-optimal strategy. b) Body transformation is made in the kitchen, not the gym. If you eat less than maintenance calories you'll lose weight, more than maintenance calories you'll gain weight and make better strength gains. Heavy weightlifting is a must to begin with, but your work in the kitchen determines your outcome. c) Don't eat processed food. It's normally High GI and full of crap [1]. d) Eat six small meals each day, at even intervals. This seems to work better than three large meals. Of course, if you're bulking, then you'll be eating six large meals each day and feeling sick most of the time. e) Eat lots of non-starchy vegetables and some fruit. Vegetables implies things like broccoli and spinach. For fruit aim for things like berries. More vegetables than fruit because you can overdo the fructose. f) Eat plenty of fish, nuts, avocadoes and other healthy fats. If you need to boost your calories further a shot (30 mL) of olive oil is ~ 250 kCal and only takes a minute. g) Eat fewer carbs, and make sure they're low GI. Hence things like lentils, brown rice, quinoa, etc. Eat carbs early in the day as they seem to give you more energy. h) Another fine protein source is skinless chicken breasts. I boil mine and throw away the fat that floats to the top. Eggs [2] can also provide lots of protein. i) Full fat milk is awesome for gaining weight as it is quick to drink and provides quick calories. j) Diets continue in perpetuity. It's like showering or brushing your teeth. You don't brush your teeth twelve times a day for a month then say "well, that's taken care of" and never brush them again. k) Post workout (for all the good post workout nutrition does) drink something with carbs and protein. I generally go for a liter of milk. l) If you're trying to reduce your caloric intake, replace food with things that are calorically sparse. If you eat a big salad [3] before each meal you'll reduce the number of calories you can get through without feeling hungry. m) If you're trying to eat more and can't get through the food, buy a really good blender and drink as much as possible. [1] I'd chiefly be worried about salt and high-fructose corn syrup. A lot of the threatening looking stuff on the label isn't, but it's a pain in the ass to figure that out. [2] I'm not sure whether they're good or bad for you today. [3] With no dressing or something with minimal calories if you aren't hard enough. Potentially many of these could be debated as nutrition is a bit of a clusterfuck of contradictory information, but I'm reasonably confident in them.
starkfist 17y ago
Does anyone know of a good book or web resource for training legs and back with a back injury? I would like to get into Olympic lifts but I have three slipped discs from overloading a hip sled in high school. I'm pretty strong otherwise, but my legs are messed up. My injury is under control but when I do the wrong thing I can't walk for a week. There is a dedicated olympic lifting school blocks from where I live, but in my experience almost nobody knows anything about how to train with a back injury. I'd like to go in at least prepared with the right questions to ask. I know that Paul Chek has rehabilitated many of my favorite athletes. For instance, Danny Way broke his neck surfing, and Chek got his body back in shape for his crazy mega ramp stuff. I was thinking of finding a Chek certified trainer, but unfortunately it seems that whole scene has veered off into borderline cult territory. This is really NOT hacker news but since the topic is here I thought I'd pose the question. At least it seems like there are some smart people here. Fitness forums are always bonkers and loaded with bad advice.
- giardini 17y ago
  Here are a couple of recommendations from someone in a similar situation: a) use a "Roman Chair", but only a particular type of Roman Chair: one that allows the footrest to be at the same level or above the hip/stomach rest. That is this (good) http://www.sport-n-goods.com/acatalog/92625w.jpg http://www.sport-n-goods.com/acatalog/92625w.jpg rather than this (bad) http://www.donoliver.co.nz/images/CT-2072%2045%20Roman%20Chair.jpg http://www.donoliver.co.nz/images/CT-2072%2045%20Roman%20Cha... And don't use it the way they usually illustrate here http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=roman+chair&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0 http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=op... Your back should never be hyperextended (effectively, leaning backward) as if in orgasmic bliss, as they so often show. Instead use it like the leftmost 2 photos here http://www.fitsugar.com/Roman-Chair-Explained-946313 http://www.fitsugar.com/Roman-Chair-Explained-946313 The "bad" Roman Chair, the one that puts you at a 45 degree angle with your head above your hips, will likely injure your back if you have any pre-existing problem. Instead use a Roman Chair that puts your feet and hips at the same level and allows you to hang with your head down and your torso vertical. Once you're in position (head straight down), lift yourself slowly to 45 degrees from vertical, no more, lower and try to and relax the back spinal muscles. The whole point is to use your upper-body weight to stretch out those tight spinal muscles. Over time you can add weight. Put the weight on the floor, get in position (head down) and only then pick up the weight. The greater the weight the more your back stretches. Increase weights only slowly over the weeks.Always warm up with no weight first. b) there are good lower back exercises from the Royal Canadian Airforce 5BX Fitness Plan at http://www.corvedale.previewurl.com/5bx/ http://www.corvedale.previewurl.com/5bx/ chart 1, exercise 2 chart 2, exercise 2 chart 3, exercise 2 Read about 5BX before starting. The chart 1 exercises are intended to be done for awhile before starting chart 2, etc. That is, don't start at chart 2. Otherwise you may hurt yourself.

by philk 17y ago

enjo 17y ago

On top of that: If you don't build muscle very easily, then you need to be careful with extraneous physical activity. As an ectomorph, I find that I need ALL of my 4500 daily calories to build muscle. I generally lift 3 times a week with a 4th day of dedicated to cardio at the end of the week. I rotate between 4 week sets of cardio/muscle-building as well. That works well for me. The authors suggestion of doing daily cardio might very well be sabotaging your results.

tjogin 17y ago
It's well established science that cardio has a net negative effect on muscle gain.

stiff 17y ago

I agree with the general advice, especially with the Starting Strength recommendation, but the milk advice (also from this book), speaking from own experience, is a recipe for disaster unless you are aiming for a powerlifting physique, with plenty of muscle hidden underneath plenty of fat or unless you are __really skinny__. "Starting strength" is great for exercise technique, but go also get a good nutrition book and make sure you are actually following a nutrition plan in the same way you are following an exercise program. It's easier to do it then it is to loose the fat belly afterwards, or to get rid of the stretch marks from a too rapid weight gain.

philk 17y ago
Losing fat isn't all that hard. You keep lifting heavy weights and subtract ~250 kCal a day from your diet. If you aren't losing much [1] weight, you subtract another ~250 kCal/day and so on. They heavy weights are there to persuade your body to hang onto muscle which is metabolically expensive and therefore eliminated if not used. I'm curious how much you were eating to wind up with loads of fat. I've put on ~40 lbs in the last year and still have a six pack [2]. [1] much is a maximum of 1 lb a week. [2] In favorable lighting.
- stiff 17y ago
  It doesn't work this way, at least not for everyone (genetics), exactly because of the muscle loss that occurs when you decrease caloric intake. Of course you can prevent it in some ways, but then it is no longer just "subtracting 250 kCal". Nutrition is complex, so I would not give advice this simplified about it, as it can get you in trouble, just as putting 15lbs weight in a month. Maybe you have good genetics, or already follow a well-balanced diet, but people who follow your advice not necessarily so, they should thus pay more attention to this aspect of "training". I learned this lesson the hard way, so I wish the advice in "Starting Strength" would be more balanced in this respect.
  - philk 17y ago
    The Rippetoe stuff should generally be applied such that you gradually increase your intake until you're putting on enough weight, and back off if you're gaining fat too quickly. And for the majority of Rippetoe's target audience, that is young skinny guys, getting enough calories is more important than the right calories. I'm curious as to whether you just started drinking a gallon of milk every day from the get go? Because I imagine that adding ~2800 kCal to your maintenance diet would tend to pile on rather more fat than usual. Also I'd assume that the average HNer could put together a diet that's pretty reasonable with minimal preparation, however, here's a few pointers I've followed... General diet guidelines: a) For optimal health, the fewer calories you eat without starving or failing to satisfy nutritional requirements the better (ie caloric restriction). Hence eating to gain weight, even muscle, probably necessitates a sub-optimal strategy. b) Body transformation is made in the kitchen, not the gym. If you eat less than maintenance calories you'll lose weight, more than maintenance calories you'll gain weight and make better strength gains. Heavy weightlifting is a must to begin with, but your work in the kitchen determines your outcome. c) Don't eat processed food. It's normally High GI and full of crap [1]. d) Eat six small meals each day, at even intervals. This seems to work better than three large meals. Of course, if you're bulking, then you'll be eating six large meals each day and feeling sick most of the time. e) Eat lots of non-starchy vegetables and some fruit. Vegetables implies things like broccoli and spinach. For fruit aim for things like berries. More vegetables than fruit because you can overdo the fructose. f) Eat plenty of fish, nuts, avocadoes and other healthy fats. If you need to boost your calories further a shot (30 mL) of olive oil is ~ 250 kCal and only takes a minute. g) Eat fewer carbs, and make sure they're low GI. Hence things like lentils, brown rice, quinoa, etc. Eat carbs early in the day as they seem to give you more energy. h) Another fine protein source is skinless chicken breasts. I boil mine and throw away the fat that floats to the top. Eggs [2] can also provide lots of protein. i) Full fat milk is awesome for gaining weight as it is quick to drink and provides quick calories. j) Diets continue in perpetuity. It's like showering or brushing your teeth. You don't brush your teeth twelve times a day for a month then say "well, that's taken care of" and never brush them again. k) Post workout (for all the good post workout nutrition does) drink something with carbs and protein. I generally go for a liter of milk. l) If you're trying to reduce your caloric intake, replace food with things that are calorically sparse. If you eat a big salad [3] before each meal you'll reduce the number of calories you can get through without feeling hungry. m) If you're trying to eat more and can't get through the food, buy a really good blender and drink as much as possible. [1] I'd chiefly be worried about salt and high-fructose corn syrup. A lot of the threatening looking stuff on the label isn't, but it's a pain in the ass to figure that out. [2] I'm not sure whether they're good or bad for you today. [3] With no dressing or something with minimal calories if you aren't hard enough. Potentially many of these could be debated as nutrition is a bit of a clusterfuck of contradictory information, but I'm reasonably confident in them.

starkfist 17y ago

Does anyone know of a good book or web resource for training legs and back with a back injury? I would like to get into Olympic lifts but I have three slipped discs from overloading a hip sled in high school. I'm pretty strong otherwise, but my legs are messed up. My injury is under control but when I do the wrong thing I can't walk for a week. There is a dedicated olympic lifting school blocks from where I live, but in my experience almost nobody knows anything about how to train with a back injury. I'd like to go in at least prepared with the right questions to ask. I know that Paul Chek has rehabilitated many of my favorite athletes. For instance, Danny Way broke his neck surfing, and Chek got his body back in shape for his crazy mega ramp stuff. I was thinking of finding a Chek certified trainer, but unfortunately it seems that whole scene has veered off into borderline cult territory. This is really NOT hacker news but since the topic is here I thought I'd pose the question. At least it seems like there are some smart people here. Fitness forums are always bonkers and loaded with bad advice.

giardini 17y ago
Here are a couple of recommendations from someone in a similar situation: a) use a "Roman Chair", but only a particular type of Roman Chair: one that allows the footrest to be at the same level or above the hip/stomach rest. That is this (good) http://www.sport-n-goods.com/acatalog/92625w.jpg http://www.sport-n-goods.com/acatalog/92625w.jpg rather than this (bad) http://www.donoliver.co.nz/images/CT-2072%2045%20Roman%20Chair.jpg http://www.donoliver.co.nz/images/CT-2072%2045%20Roman%20Cha... And don't use it the way they usually illustrate here http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=roman+chair&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&start=0 http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&client=op... Your back should never be hyperextended (effectively, leaning backward) as if in orgasmic bliss, as they so often show. Instead use it like the leftmost 2 photos here http://www.fitsugar.com/Roman-Chair-Explained-946313 http://www.fitsugar.com/Roman-Chair-Explained-946313 The "bad" Roman Chair, the one that puts you at a 45 degree angle with your head above your hips, will likely injure your back if you have any pre-existing problem. Instead use a Roman Chair that puts your feet and hips at the same level and allows you to hang with your head down and your torso vertical. Once you're in position (head straight down), lift yourself slowly to 45 degrees from vertical, no more, lower and try to and relax the back spinal muscles. The whole point is to use your upper-body weight to stretch out those tight spinal muscles. Over time you can add weight. Put the weight on the floor, get in position (head down) and only then pick up the weight. The greater the weight the more your back stretches. Increase weights only slowly over the weeks.Always warm up with no weight first. b) there are good lower back exercises from the Royal Canadian Airforce 5BX Fitness Plan at http://www.corvedale.previewurl.com/5bx/ http://www.corvedale.previewurl.com/5bx/ chart 1, exercise 2 chart 2, exercise 2 chart 3, exercise 2 Read about 5BX before starting. The chart 1 exercises are intended to be done for awhile before starting chart 2, etc. That is, don't start at chart 2. Otherwise you may hurt yourself.