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ULA does pay better... but after a certain threshold the pay doesn't matter compared to what you're working on / accomplishing. I think Google captured this rea

by ranman 10y ago

ULA does pay better... but after a certain threshold the pay doesn't matter compared to what you're working on / accomplishing. I think Google captured this really well: https://rework.withgoogle.com/blog/five-keys-to-a-successful-google-team/ https://rework.withgoogle.com/blog/five-keys-to-a-successful...

TrevorJ 10y ago
ULA is also laying off a large portion of their workforce.
- gozur88 10y ago
  That always makes for a depressing work day, even if you're not affected and everything else is going fine.
mdorazio 10y ago
SpaceX also has a reputation for severely overworking its employees in addition to the below-market pay. If working in aerospace that actually gets humans off the earth is your goal, then SpaceX is hands down the best private employer. However, if you just want to use your education and skills to work on aerospace while working reasonable hours for good pay, one of the ULA companies would be a much better bet.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  So you are saying SpaceX is the EA of rockets?
  - wbc 10y ago
    SpaceX actually makes good products tho :)
    - brianwawok 10y ago
      Most EA products were really good. Sim city back in the day rocked! Madden was amazing! I guess the danger is if we see Falcon 2020 that is the same as Falcon 2019 with new voiceovers...
      - chongli 10y ago
        The best game in the series, Sim City 2000, was released in 1994, 3 years before Maxis was acquired by EA.
- shostack 10y ago
  >"SpaceX also has a reputation for severely overworking its employees in addition to the below-market pay." This seems to be a trend with Musk-run companies. Do they really attract people that are that dedicated to the mission? Or do they get a lot of people padding their resume, then jumping ship to somewhere that compensates more fairly with work/life balance?
  - vocatus_gate 10y ago
    Money is not the only thing that matters in work. Often, depending on the field/mission/etc, the work is its own reward. I'm currently in Antarctica and took about a 30% pay cut to come here, leaving a very stable job with a large financial services company. But the chance to live, work and play here is by far more important to me than some extra money.
  - CamperBob2 10y ago
    Or do they get a lot of people padding their resume, then jumping ship to somewhere that compensates more fairly with work/life balance? It's probably like any other successful company of its size... a few really hardcore people pull a lot of weight, in terms of both getting things done and defining the company's reputation, while some others just hang on for the ride. Good management consists largely of identifying those few supercontributors and making very certain that they remain very happy.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    They probably get both. The former are ones who stay, the latter are those who leave and complain, because SpaceX is not geared towards people who just want to pad their resume.
  - MPSimmons 10y ago
    This is basically the story: http://www.geekwire.com/2016/payscale-ratings-rank-spacex-tesla-low-salary-high-meaningfulness/ http://www.geekwire.com/2016/payscale-ratings-rank-spacex-te... Yes. Working for and with people who want to change the world is, in many ways, its own reward. It's definitely possible to get burned out, and you do work hard, but there has never been a week that went by where I thought to myself, "I'm not doing anything worthwhile here", or even, "I'm not contributing positively". I used to work for a financial services company. I made 150% of what I make at SpaceX for at least as many hours a week. The difference was, at the end of those weeks, I would look back and realize that if I did my job right, I was doing nothing other than making rich people richer.
- ranman 10y ago
  I think that may have been the case earlier on but the company has certainly matured and I don't see this anymore. Maybe I'm missing it but I think a lot of that reputation is unwarranted. No one is going to stop you from over-working yourself but no one is going to force you to over-work yourself either.
- SpaceX_Tech 10y ago
  SpaceX’s reputation for not being an easy place to work is certainly deserved but from what I’ve seen management has been making a serious effort in trying to address issues of work/life balance. The situation today is much different than it was a few years ago in regards to hours worked and scheduling. In my experience, it wasn’t so much the long hours that wore thin on employees but instead it was the unreliable scheduling that prevented many people from making plans to enjoy their limited time off. There has been progress made in this regard as we have grown and gotten a better handle on some of our critical processes. I should add that much like with anything else it’s difficult to please everyone all the time and not all of these changes have been well received by everyone. Overtime work for hourly employees is much more regulated and carefully watched now than it was a few years ago and I fall into a camp that isn’t exactly pleased with this. While I think the new changes are better for the overall well being of most employees there are many of us who specifically prefer an environment that skews more heavily towards work in terms of work/life balance. Pay also tends to be lower than the industry average, especially considering living expenses in LA/Socal, but from what I’ve seen while introductory pay is low it tends to ramp up rather quickly once you hit the 3-4 year mark and is much more aligned with competitors at that point. This probably is at least partially related to the relatively high turnover here which means promotions and advancement can come quickly if you can stick it out. I should make clear that my experience is coming from the perspective of an hourly technician that is compensated for overtime, unlike the salaried engineers, although in talking with many during the course of my day they seem to have a similar experience.
ranman 10y ago
FWIW I work at spacex and have gotten offers from competitors. I don't regret staying at SpaceX and I enjoy my job -- I also work very reasonable hours on meaningful work. There are times where I'll work 80+ hour weeks close to a launch but most of the time I sit very happily at 40 hours a week. If you're interested in joining a literal rocket ship of a company you're welcome to reach out to me: randall dot hunt at spacex dot com -- we do really exciting and meaningful work that you'll be proud to talk to your friends and family about.
- lutorm 10y ago
  I think it also depends a lot on where in the company you are. If you are directly responsible for something needed to launch, there's naturally going to be a lot of pressure. If you are more removed from the direct launch operations, it's not as hectic. Being somewhat removed from the "money making business" is of course a disadvantage if you're trying to hustle and advance, but it's a tradeoff.

by ranman 10y ago

TrevorJ 10y ago

ULA is also laying off a large portion of their workforce.

gozur88 10y ago
That always makes for a depressing work day, even if you're not affected and everything else is going fine.

mdorazio 10y ago

SpaceX also has a reputation for severely overworking its employees in addition to the below-market pay. If working in aerospace that actually gets humans off the earth is your goal, then SpaceX is hands down the best private employer. However, if you just want to use your education and skills to work on aerospace while working reasonable hours for good pay, one of the ULA companies would be a much better bet.

brianwawok 10y ago
So you are saying SpaceX is the EA of rockets?
- wbc 10y ago
  SpaceX actually makes good products tho :)
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    Most EA products were really good. Sim city back in the day rocked! Madden was amazing! I guess the danger is if we see Falcon 2020 that is the same as Falcon 2019 with new voiceovers...
    - chongli 10y ago
      The best game in the series, Sim City 2000, was released in 1994, 3 years before Maxis was acquired by EA.
shostack 10y ago
>"SpaceX also has a reputation for severely overworking its employees in addition to the below-market pay." This seems to be a trend with Musk-run companies. Do they really attract people that are that dedicated to the mission? Or do they get a lot of people padding their resume, then jumping ship to somewhere that compensates more fairly with work/life balance?
- vocatus_gate 10y ago
  Money is not the only thing that matters in work. Often, depending on the field/mission/etc, the work is its own reward. I'm currently in Antarctica and took about a 30% pay cut to come here, leaving a very stable job with a large financial services company. But the chance to live, work and play here is by far more important to me than some extra money.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  Or do they get a lot of people padding their resume, then jumping ship to somewhere that compensates more fairly with work/life balance? It's probably like any other successful company of its size... a few really hardcore people pull a lot of weight, in terms of both getting things done and defining the company's reputation, while some others just hang on for the ride. Good management consists largely of identifying those few supercontributors and making very certain that they remain very happy.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  They probably get both. The former are ones who stay, the latter are those who leave and complain, because SpaceX is not geared towards people who just want to pad their resume.
- MPSimmons 10y ago
  This is basically the story: http://www.geekwire.com/2016/payscale-ratings-rank-spacex-tesla-low-salary-high-meaningfulness/ http://www.geekwire.com/2016/payscale-ratings-rank-spacex-te... Yes. Working for and with people who want to change the world is, in many ways, its own reward. It's definitely possible to get burned out, and you do work hard, but there has never been a week that went by where I thought to myself, "I'm not doing anything worthwhile here", or even, "I'm not contributing positively". I used to work for a financial services company. I made 150% of what I make at SpaceX for at least as many hours a week. The difference was, at the end of those weeks, I would look back and realize that if I did my job right, I was doing nothing other than making rich people richer.
ranman 10y ago
I think that may have been the case earlier on but the company has certainly matured and I don't see this anymore. Maybe I'm missing it but I think a lot of that reputation is unwarranted. No one is going to stop you from over-working yourself but no one is going to force you to over-work yourself either.
SpaceX_Tech 10y ago
SpaceX’s reputation for not being an easy place to work is certainly deserved but from what I’ve seen management has been making a serious effort in trying to address issues of work/life balance. The situation today is much different than it was a few years ago in regards to hours worked and scheduling. In my experience, it wasn’t so much the long hours that wore thin on employees but instead it was the unreliable scheduling that prevented many people from making plans to enjoy their limited time off. There has been progress made in this regard as we have grown and gotten a better handle on some of our critical processes. I should add that much like with anything else it’s difficult to please everyone all the time and not all of these changes have been well received by everyone. Overtime work for hourly employees is much more regulated and carefully watched now than it was a few years ago and I fall into a camp that isn’t exactly pleased with this. While I think the new changes are better for the overall well being of most employees there are many of us who specifically prefer an environment that skews more heavily towards work in terms of work/life balance. Pay also tends to be lower than the industry average, especially considering living expenses in LA/Socal, but from what I’ve seen while introductory pay is low it tends to ramp up rather quickly once you hit the 3-4 year mark and is much more aligned with competitors at that point. This probably is at least partially related to the relatively high turnover here which means promotions and advancement can come quickly if you can stick it out. I should make clear that my experience is coming from the perspective of an hourly technician that is compensated for overtime, unlike the salaried engineers, although in talking with many during the course of my day they seem to have a similar experience.

ranman 10y ago

FWIW I work at spacex and have gotten offers from competitors. I don't regret staying at SpaceX and I enjoy my job -- I also work very reasonable hours on meaningful work. There are times where I'll work 80+ hour weeks close to a launch but most of the time I sit very happily at 40 hours a week. If you're interested in joining a literal rocket ship of a company you're welcome to reach out to me: randall dot hunt at spacex dot com -- we do really exciting and meaningful work that you'll be proud to talk to your friends and family about.

lutorm 10y ago
I think it also depends a lot on where in the company you are. If you are directly responsible for something needed to launch, there's naturally going to be a lot of pressure. If you are more removed from the direct launch operations, it's not as hectic. Being somewhat removed from the "money making business" is of course a disadvantage if you're trying to hustle and advance, but it's a tradeoff.