5 ms·

This whole anti-trust case seems to be for the benefit of certain businesses (Microsoft, Yandex, etc) and not consumers.

merb 10y ago
actually it's the EU. What happens in the EU is never good for consumers and never was. Actually most people that 'control' the EU are politicans that aren't needed / wanted in their foreign country. Consider 'Günther Hermann Oettinger', he is the European Commissioner for Digital Economy and Society. Actually it's really hard to take this guy serious. Just listen at his early talks at the EU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2Pz4naZPs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2Pz4naZPs Horrible.. Really. Also he was the one who was for the right to be forgotten, but still only in Google (tm). The information is still their, it's just harder to find it. Actually the EU is the worst thing that could happen to the European Countries since the WWII. It's gone in the wrong direction.
- secfirstmd 10y ago
  Not going to even bother dissecting this argument. Living in the UK at the moment we see so much of this Britexit type hyperbole (without any real thought or planning for the future): "Actually the EU is the worst thing that could happen to the European Countries since the WWII" Really? How about invasion through the Fulda Gap by the USSR? Or communism spreading and taking hold of more of Europe? Or the food supply failing leading to famine? Or constant nationalism resulting in WW3? Or resurgent Nazism? or an outbreak of civil wars across the whole continent? or outbreak of disease? or nuclear terrorism? or massive levels of regular terrorism? or massive energy crisis leading to huge death tolls because of colds. I can go on... For just one of the huge amount of positive benefits of the EU, I will leave the argument to Patrick Stewart doing a short comedy about it: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick-stewart-sketch-what-has-the-echr-ever-done-for-us-video http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick...
  - merb 10y ago
    Actually terrorism could actually be targeted against the EU. It's really hard to say if there wouldn't be any without the EU. But I really think that without opening the borders as it was done with some EU contract, it wouldn't be as worse at it is now. If these days somebody would bomb some citizens it's really hard to say from where these people would come. In most parts of the EU you could've just go in and out whenever you want without many controls. It changed lately but still a lot of people are here now which could be good or bad, we don't know, we actually don't know anything about them and they don't know anything about us. This could lead to terrorism as well. I mean if some groups can't correlate with other groups that will be troublesome. Hopefully everything goes well.
  - secfirstmd 10y ago
    I can't reply directly to your comment on terrorism but I completely refute your argument. As an Irish person I can tell you right now that the EU has been instrumental in helping end the conflict in Northern Ireland (and I'm sure the same in Basque areas etc also). While they didn't negotiate the actual peace agreements - the benefits that came with EU membership were vital to ensuring the Republican/Nationalist leadership came to the negotiating table. -> increased standard of living -> jobs -> social protection -> fair trials -> rights for citizens etc etc etc
    - merb 10y ago
      Btw. Ireland is one of the best examples why the EU doesn't work. A lot of the good parts of Ireland happened, caused by the low cut tax rates. Even german companies used some tricks until 2014/2015 to get money out of the EU by using some 'double Irish arrangement' or other stuff. Ireland is actually one of the best countries for businesses inside the EU and it can't be good that one country is better than any other country inside the EU. In a group of countries with the same exchange it should be forbidden to have different tax rates and some other specials for companies. Also I doubt that 90% of the stuff you said would be possible just without the EU. I also thing that actually most things would actually be easier. Actually there is way more controversial stuff inside the EU that I know of and that is publicly available. Also I live in germany and we profited the most from the things happened inside the EU, that's actually controversial as well.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- gambiting 10y ago
  You are just absolutely wrong. And really? Worst thing? Like.....communism in Poland that nearly destroyed my country, which is now booming in EU, is somehow better? It's also nonsense that EU politicians are the ones that aren't needed in their country, our own representative, Mr. Tusk, was a great prime minister and no one wanted to see him go.
kyrra 10y ago
Microsoft and Google have agreed to stop going after eachother: http://recode.net/2016/04/22/microsoft-google-agree-to-stop-complaining-to-regulators-about-each-other/ http://recode.net/2016/04/22/microsoft-google-agree-to-stop-... Though, Microsoft originally made their complaints against Google in the EU back in 2011: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-google-idUSTRE72U1IN20110331 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-google-idUSTRE72... And Obama calls the EU out as saying the EU is engaging in protectionism: http://recode.net/2015/02/17/europeans-dismiss-president-obamas-remarks-about-protectionism/ http://recode.net/2015/02/17/europeans-dismiss-president-oba... The opinions stated here are my own, not necessarily those of Google.
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  >And Obama calls the EU out as saying the EU is engaging in protectionism Ironically that's not even protectionism - it's cracking down on tax evasion. When Obama slapped a 30% tax on Chinese solar panel imports to aid the US oil/gas/utility industries - that's protectionism.
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    The actual reason for those subsidies is to protect the US solar panel industry. China's panels are artificially cheap because China massively subsidizes their manufacture. These are known as "countervailing duties" [1]. The likely alternative to that is allowing China's subsidized panels to undercut domestic producers, we have cheap panels until our industry goes entirely out of business, and then have prices get jacked up because the competition is gone. EDIT: If you want to stop aiding the US oil/gas/utility industries, there are plenty of direct subsidies and tax breaks that could be removed instead of the tariffs on Chinese PV panels. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countervailing_duties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countervailing_duties
    - crdoconnor 10y ago
      No, that was the sales pitch. US solar companies contribute very little to political campaigns. Their lobbying power is very limited. Their influence is comparable (or less, even) to the US steel industry which has faced dumping and basically been told to go fuck themselves. The utilities industry, on the other hand, contributes a lot of cash to political campaigns, and has already been caught trying to influence legislators in an attempt to kill domestic solar demand (lobbying vociferously through back channels to eliminate the FIT). This is exactly what they want. That was enough to make me suspicious enough to read a large chunk of the very dull document by the US dept of state that tried to justify characterizing China's solar exports as dumping. Many of the things in the document were clutching at straws (e.g. complaining about 'free publicity' given by the local government by listing the solar companies on their website).
kuschku 10y ago
As a customer, I’m annoyed by having an un-removable Google bar in the recents menu on my Nexus device. No way to remove without modifying the OS itself (unlocking bootloader, compiling AOSP myself, flashing myself). As a developer, I’m annoyed by being forced to use Google Cloud Messaging – even when that might make it impossible for my app to send notifications, because there is no single server sending notifications, but millions (distributed systems are like that), and therefore Google is now locking my app out from receiving notifications on Android M and N during doze. On Android M that means during the night, on Android N that means as soon as the app is in background, it can’t send notifications. And then there’s the Anti-Fragmentation clause, that forbids OEMs from forking Android. The Anti-Fragmentation clause – which has been used several times by Google against Kindle devices and Tizen – might in fact end up being illegal. The EC has picked the fight mostly because of this.
- Karunamon 10y ago
  I hope it doesn't wind up being illegal. The android security landscape is a disaster, in part, because of fragmentation. OEMs need to stop screwing around with devices.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    That’s the cost of having a choice. If there was only one car, we would have far less to worry about, too. But the laws say that a software manufacturer – Microsoft or Google – can’t coerce OEMs – be they Dell or SAMSUNG – into using their OS on all systems.
    - Karunamon 10y ago
      What coercion? Those developers can use AOSP and roll whatever OS suits their fancy. They want to ship Google's code, they play by their rules. Sounds only fair.
      - kuschku 10y ago
        No, they can’t. Google prevents OEMs like SAMSUNG from shipping Kindle devices. If SAMSUNG were to ship a Kindle device, Google would immediately stop licensing them the Play Store for their other devices. This is part of the contract between Google and OEMs, and it contains this specific limitation that an OEM can only either ship Google Play devices, or AOSP devices – but not both at the same time.
bko 10y ago
Don't forget Blackberry! BlackBerry CEO Wants Legislators To Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory [0] [0] http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/21/blackberry-wut/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/21/blackberry-wut/

merb 10y ago

actually it's the EU. What happens in the EU is never good for consumers and never was. Actually most people that 'control' the EU are politicans that aren't needed / wanted in their foreign country. Consider 'Günther Hermann Oettinger', he is the European Commissioner for Digital Economy and Society. Actually it's really hard to take this guy serious. Just listen at his early talks at the EU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2Pz4naZPs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2Pz4naZPs Horrible.. Really. Also he was the one who was for the right to be forgotten, but still only in Google (tm). The information is still their, it's just harder to find it. Actually the EU is the worst thing that could happen to the European Countries since the WWII. It's gone in the wrong direction.

secfirstmd 10y ago
Not going to even bother dissecting this argument. Living in the UK at the moment we see so much of this Britexit type hyperbole (without any real thought or planning for the future): "Actually the EU is the worst thing that could happen to the European Countries since the WWII" Really? How about invasion through the Fulda Gap by the USSR? Or communism spreading and taking hold of more of Europe? Or the food supply failing leading to famine? Or constant nationalism resulting in WW3? Or resurgent Nazism? or an outbreak of civil wars across the whole continent? or outbreak of disease? or nuclear terrorism? or massive levels of regular terrorism? or massive energy crisis leading to huge death tolls because of colds. I can go on... For just one of the huge amount of positive benefits of the EU, I will leave the argument to Patrick Stewart doing a short comedy about it: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick-stewart-sketch-what-has-the-echr-ever-done-for-us-video http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2016/apr/25/patrick...
- merb 10y ago
  Actually terrorism could actually be targeted against the EU. It's really hard to say if there wouldn't be any without the EU. But I really think that without opening the borders as it was done with some EU contract, it wouldn't be as worse at it is now. If these days somebody would bomb some citizens it's really hard to say from where these people would come. In most parts of the EU you could've just go in and out whenever you want without many controls. It changed lately but still a lot of people are here now which could be good or bad, we don't know, we actually don't know anything about them and they don't know anything about us. This could lead to terrorism as well. I mean if some groups can't correlate with other groups that will be troublesome. Hopefully everything goes well.
- secfirstmd 10y ago
  I can't reply directly to your comment on terrorism but I completely refute your argument. As an Irish person I can tell you right now that the EU has been instrumental in helping end the conflict in Northern Ireland (and I'm sure the same in Basque areas etc also). While they didn't negotiate the actual peace agreements - the benefits that came with EU membership were vital to ensuring the Republican/Nationalist leadership came to the negotiating table. -> increased standard of living -> jobs -> social protection -> fair trials -> rights for citizens etc etc etc
  - merb 10y ago
    Btw. Ireland is one of the best examples why the EU doesn't work. A lot of the good parts of Ireland happened, caused by the low cut tax rates. Even german companies used some tricks until 2014/2015 to get money out of the EU by using some 'double Irish arrangement' or other stuff. Ireland is actually one of the best countries for businesses inside the EU and it can't be good that one country is better than any other country inside the EU. In a group of countries with the same exchange it should be forbidden to have different tax rates and some other specials for companies. Also I doubt that 90% of the stuff you said would be possible just without the EU. I also thing that actually most things would actually be easier. Actually there is way more controversial stuff inside the EU that I know of and that is publicly available. Also I live in germany and we profited the most from the things happened inside the EU, that's actually controversial as well.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
gambiting 10y ago
You are just absolutely wrong. And really? Worst thing? Like.....communism in Poland that nearly destroyed my country, which is now booming in EU, is somehow better? It's also nonsense that EU politicians are the ones that aren't needed in their country, our own representative, Mr. Tusk, was a great prime minister and no one wanted to see him go.

kyrra 10y ago

Microsoft and Google have agreed to stop going after eachother: http://recode.net/2016/04/22/microsoft-google-agree-to-stop-complaining-to-regulators-about-each-other/ http://recode.net/2016/04/22/microsoft-google-agree-to-stop-... Though, Microsoft originally made their complaints against Google in the EU back in 2011: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-google-idUSTRE72U1IN20110331 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-microsoft-google-idUSTRE72... And Obama calls the EU out as saying the EU is engaging in protectionism: http://recode.net/2015/02/17/europeans-dismiss-president-obamas-remarks-about-protectionism/ http://recode.net/2015/02/17/europeans-dismiss-president-oba... The opinions stated here are my own, not necessarily those of Google.

crdoconnor 10y ago
>And Obama calls the EU out as saying the EU is engaging in protectionism Ironically that's not even protectionism - it's cracking down on tax evasion. When Obama slapped a 30% tax on Chinese solar panel imports to aid the US oil/gas/utility industries - that's protectionism.
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  The actual reason for those subsidies is to protect the US solar panel industry. China's panels are artificially cheap because China massively subsidizes their manufacture. These are known as "countervailing duties" [1]. The likely alternative to that is allowing China's subsidized panels to undercut domestic producers, we have cheap panels until our industry goes entirely out of business, and then have prices get jacked up because the competition is gone. EDIT: If you want to stop aiding the US oil/gas/utility industries, there are plenty of direct subsidies and tax breaks that could be removed instead of the tariffs on Chinese PV panels. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countervailing_duties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countervailing_duties
  - crdoconnor 10y ago
    No, that was the sales pitch. US solar companies contribute very little to political campaigns. Their lobbying power is very limited. Their influence is comparable (or less, even) to the US steel industry which has faced dumping and basically been told to go fuck themselves. The utilities industry, on the other hand, contributes a lot of cash to political campaigns, and has already been caught trying to influence legislators in an attempt to kill domestic solar demand (lobbying vociferously through back channels to eliminate the FIT). This is exactly what they want. That was enough to make me suspicious enough to read a large chunk of the very dull document by the US dept of state that tried to justify characterizing China's solar exports as dumping. Many of the things in the document were clutching at straws (e.g. complaining about 'free publicity' given by the local government by listing the solar companies on their website).

kuschku 10y ago

As a customer, I’m annoyed by having an un-removable Google bar in the recents menu on my Nexus device. No way to remove without modifying the OS itself (unlocking bootloader, compiling AOSP myself, flashing myself). As a developer, I’m annoyed by being forced to use Google Cloud Messaging – even when that might make it impossible for my app to send notifications, because there is no single server sending notifications, but millions (distributed systems are like that), and therefore Google is now locking my app out from receiving notifications on Android M and N during doze. On Android M that means during the night, on Android N that means as soon as the app is in background, it can’t send notifications. And then there’s the Anti-Fragmentation clause, that forbids OEMs from forking Android. The Anti-Fragmentation clause – which has been used several times by Google against Kindle devices and Tizen – might in fact end up being illegal. The EC has picked the fight mostly because of this.

Karunamon 10y ago
I hope it doesn't wind up being illegal. The android security landscape is a disaster, in part, because of fragmentation. OEMs need to stop screwing around with devices.
- kuschku 10y ago
  That’s the cost of having a choice. If there was only one car, we would have far less to worry about, too. But the laws say that a software manufacturer – Microsoft or Google – can’t coerce OEMs – be they Dell or SAMSUNG – into using their OS on all systems.
  - Karunamon 10y ago
    What coercion? Those developers can use AOSP and roll whatever OS suits their fancy. They want to ship Google's code, they play by their rules. Sounds only fair.
    - kuschku 10y ago
      No, they can’t. Google prevents OEMs like SAMSUNG from shipping Kindle devices. If SAMSUNG were to ship a Kindle device, Google would immediately stop licensing them the Play Store for their other devices. This is part of the contract between Google and OEMs, and it contains this specific limitation that an OEM can only either ship Google Play devices, or AOSP devices – but not both at the same time.

bko 10y ago

Don't forget Blackberry! BlackBerry CEO Wants Legislators To Make Developing BlackBerry Apps Mandatory [0] [0] http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/21/blackberry-wut/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/21/blackberry-wut/