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Nurses also have licenses and registered credentials. If they mess up badly, they can be disciplined and lose their license and career. So there is a self-regul

Nurses also have licenses and registered credentials. If they mess up badly, they can be disciplined and lose their license and career. So there is a self-regulation that takes place in that industry. Were it not so, I could imagine nursing interviews to be a lot more intense. There is no such regulation in the tech industry. One bad hire I made faked his technical capabilities and I regretted it a lot when I had to work with him. I hope I've now learned how to spot that type of candidate (without resorting to interview hazing).

markbnj 11y ago
Good points. They do have licenses and credentials, and they can be disciplined if they are negligent. Not for making mistakes generally speaking, but for professional negligence. They also have to carry professional insurance against malpractice. On the other hand the consequences of hiring a nurse who isn't qualified are very much worse than the typical consequences of hiring an unqualified developer.
- esja 11y ago
  You are right, but the consequences of hiring bad developers are rising every year. I think licensing is coming whether the industry wants it or not.
  - vonmoltke 11y ago
    Why? The vast majority of industry engineers in other disciplines are not licensed. Why would software engineers be any different?
    - esja 11y ago
      I didn't say everyone would need licensing, just that it's coming. Safety critical areas will probably be first.
      - vonmoltke 11y ago
        Even then, most engineers of other disciplines do not need to be licensed. Safety-critical products must conform to standards and must be signed off by someone. Dozens or hundreds of other engineers of multiple disciplines can be involved in designing and manufacturing those products, but only one licensed engineer of any discipline is needed to sign off on its compliance. Companies that have the kind of engineering culture required to produce safety-critical products already treat software engineers like any other engineering discipline and expect them to act with the same rigor has other engineers. That's actually why I cringe every time I hear about a Valley software company wanting to pivot or branch into products like that.
Grishnakh 11y ago
Can you expand on the guy who faked his technical capabilities? Way back, I was part of a 4-person team that did some phone interviews of contractors. We asked some pretty basic questions, based on their resumes, and after the call voted on him/her. One of my questions to see if they knew anything about C++ was just to ask if they could tell me what a class was. A bunch of candidates couldn't answer that question. It really isn't that hard to ask some basic questions and talk about work experience, to get a handle on whether someone is actually a competent programmer or not. If you're looking for top-tier talent, this might not be sufficient, but most jobs do not need top-tier talent anyway.
- aluminussoma 11y ago
  The guy was lazy and not very competent. We hired him for a specific capability that he was supposedly doing in his previous job. He knew the words and terms but was dangerous in his position. I can only assume that his previous workplace, a very large company, kept him away from doing anything meaningful so that he didn't mess things up. That's what we ended up doing. I later discovered his resume was an identical copy of his coworker's resume (both were submitted several months apart for the same job).
spinlock 11y ago
We're not talking about fraud. You fire those people and move on. You shouldn't hamstring your recruiting process for the rest of time because of it. BTW, why didn't you check references?

markbnj 11y ago

Good points. They do have licenses and credentials, and they can be disciplined if they are negligent. Not for making mistakes generally speaking, but for professional negligence. They also have to carry professional insurance against malpractice. On the other hand the consequences of hiring a nurse who isn't qualified are very much worse than the typical consequences of hiring an unqualified developer.

esja 11y ago
You are right, but the consequences of hiring bad developers are rising every year. I think licensing is coming whether the industry wants it or not.
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  Why? The vast majority of industry engineers in other disciplines are not licensed. Why would software engineers be any different?
  - esja 11y ago
    I didn't say everyone would need licensing, just that it's coming. Safety critical areas will probably be first.
    - vonmoltke 11y ago
      Even then, most engineers of other disciplines do not need to be licensed. Safety-critical products must conform to standards and must be signed off by someone. Dozens or hundreds of other engineers of multiple disciplines can be involved in designing and manufacturing those products, but only one licensed engineer of any discipline is needed to sign off on its compliance. Companies that have the kind of engineering culture required to produce safety-critical products already treat software engineers like any other engineering discipline and expect them to act with the same rigor has other engineers. That's actually why I cringe every time I hear about a Valley software company wanting to pivot or branch into products like that.

Grishnakh 11y ago

Can you expand on the guy who faked his technical capabilities? Way back, I was part of a 4-person team that did some phone interviews of contractors. We asked some pretty basic questions, based on their resumes, and after the call voted on him/her. One of my questions to see if they knew anything about C++ was just to ask if they could tell me what a class was. A bunch of candidates couldn't answer that question. It really isn't that hard to ask some basic questions and talk about work experience, to get a handle on whether someone is actually a competent programmer or not. If you're looking for top-tier talent, this might not be sufficient, but most jobs do not need top-tier talent anyway.

aluminussoma 11y ago
The guy was lazy and not very competent. We hired him for a specific capability that he was supposedly doing in his previous job. He knew the words and terms but was dangerous in his position. I can only assume that his previous workplace, a very large company, kept him away from doing anything meaningful so that he didn't mess things up. That's what we ended up doing. I later discovered his resume was an identical copy of his coworker's resume (both were submitted several months apart for the same job).

spinlock 11y ago

We're not talking about fraud. You fire those people and move on. You shouldn't hamstring your recruiting process for the rest of time because of it. BTW, why didn't you check references?