3 ms·

While they're at it, they should make better humans.

methehack 10y ago
My point here is that I have always found it so completely unfathomable that someone would spend so much time on an activity -- any activity -- and then cheat. Cheating is about looking better, not being better. At the same time, it robs others, equally devoted, of a fair basis of comparison. That it ever happens is amazing to me; yet, it happens all the time at the highest levels of competition. And it happens in academics too! Same shit, different day. And in politics. Ok, I'm stopping now before I give up on us as a species. Again.
- r00fus 10y ago
  Partially because we as society likely reward "results" better than "good effort" or "team playing". I'll leave it an open question whether the money involved in these activities is an influencer, or whether it's just rotten ol human nature (addictiveness to winning). Perhaps the reality is that cheating happens everywhere and only in the highest-stakes competitions do we notice and punish it?
- recursive 10y ago
  Pro athletes aren't just motivated by an intrinsic desire to do the best they can. There is an external pressure to win. It's a real pressure with money behind it. In the case of cycling, teams are supported by sponsors out of their marketing budget. They would like to see their names in the press. (associated with a win obviously, not a cheating scandal)
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Apparently there may also be an aspect of gambling and/or mafia involvement in cyclocross as well: http://fittish.deadspin.com/professional-cyclist-gets-six-year-ban-for-using-an-ill-1773134563 http://fittish.deadspin.com/professional-cyclist-gets-six-ye...
- dpark 10y ago
  There was a paper shared on HN a month or two ago about this. Winners cheat more. Not just cheaters win, but winners turn to cheating. The high from a win is addictive. It feels good, so you want it to continue. Winners also pick up the feeling that they deserve to win and so cheating is somehow justified. Add to this all the external pressure and the monetary rewards and cheating isn't really surprising at all. I bet if you did a survey of cheaters in pretty much any field, you'd find that the biggest offenders are not people who had no chance without cheating, but people who had significant success and then turned to cheating to continue or to increase that success.
  - omonra 10y ago
    Yep. Same applies to rogue traders. They usually start faking profits after a run of success ends and they need to keep up the appearances. Nobody (that I heard of) just started rogue trading from zero.
- kamaal 10y ago
  >>My point here is that I have always found it so completely unfathomable that someone would spend so much time on an activity -- any activity -- and then cheat. Cheating is about looking better, not being better. At the same time, it robs others, equally devoted, of a fair basis of comparison. I remember as a 17 year old guy in my pre university college examination in India. There was this guy sitting behind me in the exam- he was a classmate, though he routinely bunked lectures and rarely showed up for lectures. Right before the exam he came to me with his dad and the requested if I could only help him pass the exams by letting him read from my answer sheets, I would do them a big favor. Of course I refused. But they had bribed the supervisor in the exam hall and I had enough of the guys frequent disturbance asking me to allow him read. Finally I had to give in, he copied enough to pass. Most of us boys who worked hard made it to engineering. We are now in jobs. From another friend who was close to him, I later learned he joined a science course, BSc(Physics, Math, Chemistry) which I learned he dropped out in the very first year and did exactly get into a regular job. You don't get too far doing this cheating stuff. The worst part of cheating, is we cheat ourselves. I have a rule, it's to never lie. We lie to the world, lie to ourselves about our work, about ourselves. It makes us feel comfortable for a while but it destroys us on the longer run.

My point here is that I have always found it so completely unfathomable that someone would spend so much time on an activity -- any activity -- and then cheat. Cheating is about looking better, not being better. At the same time, it robs others, equally devoted, of a fair basis of comparison. That it ever happens is amazing to me; yet, it happens all the time at the highest levels of competition. And it happens in academics too! Same shit, different day. And in politics. Ok, I'm stopping now before I give up on us as a species. Again.

r00fus 10y ago
Partially because we as society likely reward "results" better than "good effort" or "team playing". I'll leave it an open question whether the money involved in these activities is an influencer, or whether it's just rotten ol human nature (addictiveness to winning). Perhaps the reality is that cheating happens everywhere and only in the highest-stakes competitions do we notice and punish it?
recursive 10y ago
Pro athletes aren't just motivated by an intrinsic desire to do the best they can. There is an external pressure to win. It's a real pressure with money behind it. In the case of cycling, teams are supported by sponsors out of their marketing budget. They would like to see their names in the press. (associated with a win obviously, not a cheating scandal)
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  Apparently there may also be an aspect of gambling and/or mafia involvement in cyclocross as well: http://fittish.deadspin.com/professional-cyclist-gets-six-year-ban-for-using-an-ill-1773134563 http://fittish.deadspin.com/professional-cyclist-gets-six-ye...
dpark 10y ago
There was a paper shared on HN a month or two ago about this. Winners cheat more. Not just cheaters win, but winners turn to cheating. The high from a win is addictive. It feels good, so you want it to continue. Winners also pick up the feeling that they deserve to win and so cheating is somehow justified. Add to this all the external pressure and the monetary rewards and cheating isn't really surprising at all. I bet if you did a survey of cheaters in pretty much any field, you'd find that the biggest offenders are not people who had no chance without cheating, but people who had significant success and then turned to cheating to continue or to increase that success.
- omonra 10y ago
  Yep. Same applies to rogue traders. They usually start faking profits after a run of success ends and they need to keep up the appearances. Nobody (that I heard of) just started rogue trading from zero.
kamaal 10y ago
>>My point here is that I have always found it so completely unfathomable that someone would spend so much time on an activity -- any activity -- and then cheat. Cheating is about looking better, not being better. At the same time, it robs others, equally devoted, of a fair basis of comparison. I remember as a 17 year old guy in my pre university college examination in India. There was this guy sitting behind me in the exam- he was a classmate, though he routinely bunked lectures and rarely showed up for lectures. Right before the exam he came to me with his dad and the requested if I could only help him pass the exams by letting him read from my answer sheets, I would do them a big favor. Of course I refused. But they had bribed the supervisor in the exam hall and I had enough of the guys frequent disturbance asking me to allow him read. Finally I had to give in, he copied enough to pass. Most of us boys who worked hard made it to engineering. We are now in jobs. From another friend who was close to him, I later learned he joined a science course, BSc(Physics, Math, Chemistry) which I learned he dropped out in the very first year and did exactly get into a regular job. You don't get too far doing this cheating stuff. The worst part of cheating, is we cheat ourselves. I have a rule, it's to never lie. We lie to the world, lie to ourselves about our work, about ourselves. It makes us feel comfortable for a while but it destroys us on the longer run.