5 ms·

If they didn't have those insane installation instructions that said: sudo chown -R `whoami` /usr/local I'd check this out. But I just can't bring myself to

by jmatt 17y ago

If they didn't have those insane installation instructions that said: sudo chown -R `whoami` /usr/local I'd check this out. But I just can't bring myself to do it when they still have that as their default install instructions.

illumin8 17y ago
A lot of developers have no idea how UNIX permissions and mode bits work. I've witnessed this countless times, when a developer can't figure out why his code won't run, and just tells me to "chmod -R 777 /programdir/*" I've had to sit a few developers down and teach them how to use commands like strace and truss to show them exactly which file they are trying to f_open and why it fails (usually trying to open a file in read/write mode that is not owned by them and 644 permissions). Shouldn't this stuff be taught in basic CS101 courses?
- joevandyk 17y ago
  Why would stuff about a particular OS's filesytem be taught in a beginning computer science class?
  - nvoorhies 17y ago
    It's akin to "here's where the computer lab is" rather than in the "this is what a stack is"
  - illumin8 17y ago
    Because CS101 should teach you about basic programming techniques, like how to open a file for reading or writing. In order to understand how to open a file, you need to have a basic understanding of how permissions work. In order to understand how permissions work, you need to understand how mode bits work. This is really basic stuff, but I'm not surprised that most developers think it is beneath them. "That's sysadmin stuff; I don't need to learn that." These are usually the same developers that think chmod 777 is a fix.
fragmede 17y ago
Uh, so don't do that. On my macbook, I stuck homebrew in ~/homebrew and everything is great.
- tvon 17y ago
  I think the point is more that the general instructions tell you to do it without any justification (which a lot of experienced *nix users seem to think it needs, myself included), it makes you wonder what kind of code is sitting in there without real justification.
olliesaunders 17y ago
I don't get why this is bad. The stuff in /usr/local is supposed to belong all to me unless I have to share my computer with other users and then I guess I'd use a group. I also like the point the brew README makes about how using sudo a lot conditions you to use it without thinking.

by jmatt 17y ago

illumin8 17y ago

A lot of developers have no idea how UNIX permissions and mode bits work. I've witnessed this countless times, when a developer can't figure out why his code won't run, and just tells me to "chmod -R 777 /programdir/*" I've had to sit a few developers down and teach them how to use commands like strace and truss to show them exactly which file they are trying to f_open and why it fails (usually trying to open a file in read/write mode that is not owned by them and 644 permissions). Shouldn't this stuff be taught in basic CS101 courses?

joevandyk 17y ago
Why would stuff about a particular OS's filesytem be taught in a beginning computer science class?
- nvoorhies 17y ago
  It's akin to "here's where the computer lab is" rather than in the "this is what a stack is"
- illumin8 17y ago
  Because CS101 should teach you about basic programming techniques, like how to open a file for reading or writing. In order to understand how to open a file, you need to have a basic understanding of how permissions work. In order to understand how permissions work, you need to understand how mode bits work. This is really basic stuff, but I'm not surprised that most developers think it is beneath them. "That's sysadmin stuff; I don't need to learn that." These are usually the same developers that think chmod 777 is a fix.

fragmede 17y ago

Uh, so don't do that. On my macbook, I stuck homebrew in ~/homebrew and everything is great.

tvon 17y ago
I think the point is more that the general instructions tell you to do it without any justification (which a lot of experienced *nix users seem to think it needs, myself included), it makes you wonder what kind of code is sitting in there without real justification.

olliesaunders 17y ago

I don't get why this is bad. The stuff in /usr/local is supposed to belong all to me unless I have to share my computer with other users and then I guess I'd use a group. I also like the point the brew README makes about how using sudo a lot conditions you to use it without thinking.