6 ms·

IT (By IT I'm talking about my industry, I'm an IT administrator, not programming) hiring is based a lot on certifications, certifications which are abundantl

IT (By IT I'm talking about my industry, I'm an IT administrator, not programming) hiring is based a lot on certifications, certifications which are abundantly easy to scam. You can find full exams with answers of CCNA and every Microsoft cert imaginable, I've worked for companies that incentivise certifications, and i watched coworkers use these 'tools' en masse to gain easy pay bumps and pad their resumes. I've had two interviewers ever to ask me technical questions that actually tested my knowledge or capabilities. I look good enough on paper so usually interviews are with a couple managers and if there's a culture fit I'm in. Doesn't matter if i dont know a damn thing, if my resume says MCSE on it. Microsoft and others further incentivise these certs by giving bonuses and breaks to companies employing certified individuals. If you think people being hired because they passed a test they cheated on is 'more objective than other fields' then maybe i just have a warped view of how objective other fields are

Scea91 10y ago
None of the employees I would consider working for gives fk about certifications. I agree with you that certifications are crap but I haven't encountered a single good company that cares about them.
- unprepare 10y ago
  I've let mine lapse completely to weed out companies searching only for major certs, i'm not interested in competing with cheaters. Vastly fewer responses and recruiters on major sites, but i've got about another 6 months to go on a really interesting couple of projects at my current job, so I'm not too upset about it.
- odonnellryan 10y ago
  It's not true. Some companies legitimately care about them: if you are an MSP it is very useful to have people with Cisco, MS, and other certs. Sometimes it is almost required (see MS certs) to be competitive. So, they only care because it's a business thing (not a qualification thing) but they do care.
  - unprepare 10y ago
    I've worked for several MSPs this is my experience. They are very keen on getting employees with existing certs or getting current employees to actively be getting more certs. There are specific incentives from microsoft based on how many employees have certain levels of microsoft certification. it comes with discounts and marketing materials/privileges (Who doesnt want to say they are a Microsoft certified Gold support partner?) As such, it is conveniently ignored that the guy with an MCSE isnt going to get fired because their gold level partnership lapses if they dont keep X number of MCSEs on staff
- ckozlowski 10y ago
  In my experience I wouldn't say they were complete crap or didn't care at all, but I'd agree with the notion that they're a poor indicator by themselves. When my team would look at candidates, past accomplishments and projects counted for tons more than a cert. Still, a cert told us what someone was interested in and what they wanted to bone up on. They could expect questions relating to that cert field during the call. If they had trouble talking on the subject, then we knew that the cert was likely there to be a pad or just something to fulfill some billet requirement. In good cases we'd find that the cert was an indicator of something they were passionate about. So I consider it a pointer of sorts. Never worthy of hiring someone on it's own, but I'd recommend them to people who are /ready/ to demonstrate knowledge and may not necessarily have the project experience otherwise. I'd just recommend to them that they be ready to talk to it in an interview.
dspillett 10y ago
>* being hired because they passed a test they cheated on* The certificate shouldn't matter in the interview itself - it is just a way to pair down the choices of who you interview when you have many candidates. If you have knowledgeable people in the interview process (i.e. at least have a dev present for a dev interview, not just managers or HR people) then you should be able to catch those that don't really have the skills. Heck, even people who genuinely have a certificate might be rubbish overall but revised well for the exam days - you'll hopefully weed those out in a good interview process too.
- unprepare 10y ago
  >The certificate shouldn't matter in the interview itself Have you had many IT interviews? I have, they are vastly non-technical interviews. Unless you count "have you ever used #CommonSoftware? how about #SlightlylessCommonSoftware?" as a technical interview. I'm an IT administrator, not a programmer, so i'm speaking to my experience in that field, I am not trying to make any claims about how programming interviews work. I've never had a whiteboard in an interview, I have in two interviews ever been asked to walk through a diagnostic process for problems, or asked any infrastructure or network design/architecture questions. Its worth noting I work and live in Detroit Michigan, so I'm not exactly interviewing with major technology companies regularly. But I have worked for MSPs which glossed over technical interviews in favor of culture fit as well. (MSPs are especially incentivised to have employees with certs, they get discounts and kickbacks)
  - devonkim 10y ago
    The discounts and kickbacks matter far less than referrals from the major tech company vendor for, say, integration work that's contracted. Most tech work outside major cities comes down to basic IT or contracting for the big tech companies that don't want to deal with enterprise drivel.
unprepare 10y ago
Thanks for the downvotes on these comments, I'd love an explanation as to why - Am i not contributing to the discussion with my comments? I guess maybe i insulted some CCNA or MCSE-ers
- metaphorm 10y ago
  I downvoted you because your comment was off topic. The discussion is about the interview process for business application developers. That is a very different role than what you do.
  - unprepare 10y ago
    I respectfully disagree. The article starts with: >This is a story about my interview experience in the tech industry. I also work in the tech industry, I was sharing my experience of interviewing in the tech industry. More specifically i was responding to a comment that said: > Hiring in CS / IT is massively more objective compared to most of other fields.
praneshp 10y ago
Can someone explain why this is downvoted (it appears grey to me). Is his content wrong/false?

Scea91 10y ago

None of the employees I would consider working for gives fk about certifications. I agree with you that certifications are crap but I haven't encountered a single good company that cares about them.

unprepare 10y ago
I've let mine lapse completely to weed out companies searching only for major certs, i'm not interested in competing with cheaters. Vastly fewer responses and recruiters on major sites, but i've got about another 6 months to go on a really interesting couple of projects at my current job, so I'm not too upset about it.
odonnellryan 10y ago
It's not true. Some companies legitimately care about them: if you are an MSP it is very useful to have people with Cisco, MS, and other certs. Sometimes it is almost required (see MS certs) to be competitive. So, they only care because it's a business thing (not a qualification thing) but they do care.
- unprepare 10y ago
  I've worked for several MSPs this is my experience. They are very keen on getting employees with existing certs or getting current employees to actively be getting more certs. There are specific incentives from microsoft based on how many employees have certain levels of microsoft certification. it comes with discounts and marketing materials/privileges (Who doesnt want to say they are a Microsoft certified Gold support partner?) As such, it is conveniently ignored that the guy with an MCSE isnt going to get fired because their gold level partnership lapses if they dont keep X number of MCSEs on staff
ckozlowski 10y ago
In my experience I wouldn't say they were complete crap or didn't care at all, but I'd agree with the notion that they're a poor indicator by themselves. When my team would look at candidates, past accomplishments and projects counted for tons more than a cert. Still, a cert told us what someone was interested in and what they wanted to bone up on. They could expect questions relating to that cert field during the call. If they had trouble talking on the subject, then we knew that the cert was likely there to be a pad or just something to fulfill some billet requirement. In good cases we'd find that the cert was an indicator of something they were passionate about. So I consider it a pointer of sorts. Never worthy of hiring someone on it's own, but I'd recommend them to people who are /ready/ to demonstrate knowledge and may not necessarily have the project experience otherwise. I'd just recommend to them that they be ready to talk to it in an interview.

dspillett 10y ago

>* being hired because they passed a test they cheated on* The certificate shouldn't matter in the interview itself - it is just a way to pair down the choices of who you interview when you have many candidates. If you have knowledgeable people in the interview process (i.e. at least have a dev present for a dev interview, not just managers or HR people) then you should be able to catch those that don't really have the skills. Heck, even people who genuinely have a certificate might be rubbish overall but revised well for the exam days - you'll hopefully weed those out in a good interview process too.

unprepare 10y ago
>The certificate shouldn't matter in the interview itself Have you had many IT interviews? I have, they are vastly non-technical interviews. Unless you count "have you ever used #CommonSoftware? how about #SlightlylessCommonSoftware?" as a technical interview. I'm an IT administrator, not a programmer, so i'm speaking to my experience in that field, I am not trying to make any claims about how programming interviews work. I've never had a whiteboard in an interview, I have in two interviews ever been asked to walk through a diagnostic process for problems, or asked any infrastructure or network design/architecture questions. Its worth noting I work and live in Detroit Michigan, so I'm not exactly interviewing with major technology companies regularly. But I have worked for MSPs which glossed over technical interviews in favor of culture fit as well. (MSPs are especially incentivised to have employees with certs, they get discounts and kickbacks)
- devonkim 10y ago
  The discounts and kickbacks matter far less than referrals from the major tech company vendor for, say, integration work that's contracted. Most tech work outside major cities comes down to basic IT or contracting for the big tech companies that don't want to deal with enterprise drivel.

unprepare 10y ago

Thanks for the downvotes on these comments, I'd love an explanation as to why - Am i not contributing to the discussion with my comments? I guess maybe i insulted some CCNA or MCSE-ers

metaphorm 10y ago
I downvoted you because your comment was off topic. The discussion is about the interview process for business application developers. That is a very different role than what you do.
- unprepare 10y ago
  I respectfully disagree. The article starts with: >This is a story about my interview experience in the tech industry. I also work in the tech industry, I was sharing my experience of interviewing in the tech industry. More specifically i was responding to a comment that said: > Hiring in CS / IT is massively more objective compared to most of other fields.

praneshp 10y ago

Can someone explain why this is downvoted (it appears grey to me). Is his content wrong/false?