4 ms·

As ascension posts go, this is pretty mundane; a fairly normal first ascension. Don't get me wrong--it's an enjoyable read--but it misses out on what makes Neth

As ascension posts go, this is pretty mundane; a fairly normal first ascension. Don't get me wrong--it's an enjoyable read--but it misses out on what makes Nethack a truly unique gaming experience. Nethack is fundamentally a hacker game. It's about exploiting the rules, exploiting the programming in order to solve unreasonably difficult problems in creative ways. Just as an example, he mentions black pudding farming simply as a tactic he's copied from others. But the true spirit of Nethack was when another player and I invented black pudding farming: putting together the tactics and equipment to make it viable in order to solve a specific problem. At a high level of play, one is constantly doing that sort of thing on the spot. Ascension posts by good players commonly introduce completely new tactics.

Dove 17y ago
Funny thing about Nethack... a newbie looks at it and says "what is this, a computer hacking game?" An intermediate player says "oh, I see, it's just an RPG." An advanced player says "oh, wait, it is a hacking game!"
garote 17y ago
Well laa dee daa, aren't you cool. Speaking as the author of that essay, I can tell you, I did my fair share of hacking. I'll go up against you in a hacker dick-measuring contest any day. Back in 1992 I was rolling my own builds of Nethack on a university server, OVER DIALUP, to play it my own way. And before Nethack I was hex-editing my copy of Beneath Apple Manor. So nyeah.
- lotharbot 17y ago
  "I can tell you, I did my fair share of hacking." This is a fair response. I didn't feel your essay brought out that aspect of the game very well, but I have no reason to doubt it happened. IMO, the use and abuse of the game's rules are the most interesting bit of Nethack, and I wanted to highlight that. "I'll go up against you in a hacker dick-measuring contest any day." This is ridiculous and in no way appropriate. I meant nothing personal by my comment.
mapleoin 17y ago
Got any links to better ascension posts?
- lotharbot 17y ago
  For a post that describes the "hacking" ethos of the game that I wanted to bring out, try my wife's atheist, petless, genoless, wishless wizard ( http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/6527365b9abe1a5c http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...? ). Putting together all those conducts meant she had to be creative in identifying curses, acquiring holy water, coming up with a viable end-game weapon, and fighting certain dangerous enemies. The sequence of confusing herself to read remove curse and make holy and unholy waters so she could bless the polymorph book so she could polypile for fireball so she could beat the quest boss is the sort of "using every corner of the rules to your benefit" thing that I love about nethack. (Also, let me repeat for emphasis: the original post was an enjoyable read. I mean no disrespect to its author.)
  - garote 17y ago
    So in twenty years of playing Nethack, I have apparently "missed the point" of the game, by not choosing to play with self-imposed restrictions? Actually, come to think of it, that statement doesn't even apply. My self-imposed restriction was to take no notes, not even after identifying rare items. Personally, I think my tactic for identifying magic lamps counts as "hacking" according to your earlier definition.
    - lotharbot 17y ago
      I think you're missing the point now. Again, no disrespect to you or your Nethack abilities; ascending a character is serious evidence of skills. What I wanted to point out is something you didn't emphasize: using and abusing the rules is what makes Nethack a unique gaming experience. Self-imposed restrictions aren't the only way to go, but they do force you to abuse the rules more heavily than without. Here are some classics that demonstrate what I'm talking about: - foodless atheist polyless: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/0ba6659e795daae5 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...? - pacifist, with Pestilence as his pet: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/eaa994c5bddbfae2 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...?

Dove 17y ago

Funny thing about Nethack... a newbie looks at it and says "what is this, a computer hacking game?" An intermediate player says "oh, I see, it's just an RPG." An advanced player says "oh, wait, it is a hacking game!"

garote 17y ago

Well laa dee daa, aren't you cool. Speaking as the author of that essay, I can tell you, I did my fair share of hacking. I'll go up against you in a hacker dick-measuring contest any day. Back in 1992 I was rolling my own builds of Nethack on a university server, OVER DIALUP, to play it my own way. And before Nethack I was hex-editing my copy of Beneath Apple Manor. So nyeah.

lotharbot 17y ago
"I can tell you, I did my fair share of hacking." This is a fair response. I didn't feel your essay brought out that aspect of the game very well, but I have no reason to doubt it happened. IMO, the use and abuse of the game's rules are the most interesting bit of Nethack, and I wanted to highlight that. "I'll go up against you in a hacker dick-measuring contest any day." This is ridiculous and in no way appropriate. I meant nothing personal by my comment.

mapleoin 17y ago

Got any links to better ascension posts?

lotharbot 17y ago
For a post that describes the "hacking" ethos of the game that I wanted to bring out, try my wife's atheist, petless, genoless, wishless wizard ( http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/6527365b9abe1a5c http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...? ). Putting together all those conducts meant she had to be creative in identifying curses, acquiring holy water, coming up with a viable end-game weapon, and fighting certain dangerous enemies. The sequence of confusing herself to read remove curse and make holy and unholy waters so she could bless the polymorph book so she could polypile for fireball so she could beat the quest boss is the sort of "using every corner of the rules to your benefit" thing that I love about nethack. (Also, let me repeat for emphasis: the original post was an enjoyable read. I mean no disrespect to its author.)
- garote 17y ago
  So in twenty years of playing Nethack, I have apparently "missed the point" of the game, by not choosing to play with self-imposed restrictions? Actually, come to think of it, that statement doesn't even apply. My self-imposed restriction was to take no notes, not even after identifying rare items. Personally, I think my tactic for identifying magic lamps counts as "hacking" according to your earlier definition.
  - lotharbot 17y ago
    I think you're missing the point now. Again, no disrespect to you or your Nethack abilities; ascending a character is serious evidence of skills. What I wanted to point out is something you didn't emphasize: using and abusing the rules is what makes Nethack a unique gaming experience. Self-imposed restrictions aren't the only way to go, but they do force you to abuse the rules more heavily than without. Here are some classics that demonstrate what I'm talking about: - foodless atheist polyless: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/0ba6659e795daae5 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...? - pacifist, with Pestilence as his pet: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/eaa994c5bddbfae2 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/m...?