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It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which

by nihonde 11y ago

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are another. Anyway, in my experience, Japan today is a pleasant place to live. The lack of boom times here has rendered Japan more humble and practical than in the recent past. Most people in Japan ultimately enjoy a middle-class existence that would be the envy of the average American family. There are plenty of people who are struggling here, but Japanese people have endured far worse. Western commentators will tell us that huge bloc of elders are an impossible burden on Japanese society. I see it differently—those people are a treasure trove of hard-earned experience. We can learn from them, and they're currently doing an excellent job as stewards of this place. They've seen first-hand the folly of chasing America and Europe on their imperialist fancies. I would rather live in a "poor" Japan than in a "rich" America any day of the week. You can't put a price on peace of mind and the general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause.

_Codemonkeyism 11y ago
"They've seen first-hand the folly of chasing America and Europe on their imperialist fancies." Interesting view on history.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  I'd see it more as a comment on the here and now. History is one thing. The wanton destruction of other nation states at the present time, another thing entirely.
- nihonde 11y ago
  Well, it was intended as an "aside" comment, but it's still interesting, if controversial. I believe that there is an unbroken thread from the arrival of American ships in Tokyo bay in 1853 to the current day. If you look at the official US history of that event (it's here: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/opening-to-japan https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/opening-to-ja...), it is characterized as a great opening of Japan to the world. In fact, it was in the pursuit of an arrogant imperialist notion of "Manifest Destiny" that Commodore Perry humiliated the Japanese and scared them into thinking that they needed to get into the expansion and conquest game in order to survive. It was a clear message from the Americans: we're coming in whether you like it or not. Some call it a wake up call; others call it a provocation. Reasonable men and women can disagree about it. There's no doubt that it directly led to the lowest and highest points of Japanese civilization in the 20th century, though. I think if people looked into the context of events with more curiosity, we would ultimately all benefit from the inquiry. (And yes, I do believe that America and much of Europe are still pursuing an imperialist agenda. Call me crazy, if you want.)
  - _Codemonkeyism 11y ago
    Following this line of thought I would assume America is chasing Europe on their imperialist fancy, Europe (modern) those of the British, the British chasing Romes fancies, Rome those of the Greeks, the Greeks those of the Egyptians (and Persians?) and the Egyptians those of Sumer. This probably goes on though noone left writings before the Sumerians (but my knowledge is fague here). I would also assume the invasions e.g. of Korea by Japanese before 1853 where not imperialist by intention.
    - nihonde 11y ago
      Great point about Toyotomi Hideyoshi's attempt to conquer Korean and China! I guess the legacy of the Edo period was a kind of reset on that ambition, because the country was closed and not looking for a fight. I would say it was actually the failure of the shogunate to stand up to Commodore Perry that ended Edo and kicked off the outward-looking Meiji. I'm no expert in this area, but I enjoy learning about it.
      - jazzyk 11y ago
        What about the post-Meiji period? The attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 was just a misunderstood act of extending an olive branch?
        nihonde 11y ago
        (Again my views only.) I think it was a direct reaction to the aggression of 1853. It was preceded by posturing/maneuvering in the South Pacific if I'm not mistaken. To be clear, I don't think it was justified or proportionate, but I do think those events were closely linked in that Japan saw Americans as encroaching on their sovereignty and an imminent threat from the "East".
        SEJeff 11y ago
        Much like the Norsemen were misunderstood by the Celts/Gaels in Ireland (whom they slaughtered)
- alphonsegaston 11y ago
  Although this may be true for a wide swathe of Japanese citizens, the ruling party of Japan has a long history of whitewashing Japan's imperialist past, making this argument tenuous at best. Abe Shinzo's government has been actively dismantling press freedoms to quell anything resembling dissent on this front as well, while his colleagues openly reference the Nazi's rise to power as an exemplar. http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-japan-press-freedom-20160420-story.html http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-japan-press-freedom-...
  - nihonde 11y ago
    It's an interesting problem. I don't like Abe very much, but I respect him. I wonder if most people understand what a powerful coalition he has in the current government? He is one of the most powerful leaders in the history of Japan by that measure. What makes him different is his emphasis on action. He says that he endured many years when the ruling party was hesitant to take action, and he was determined to move the nation in his time. Whether you agree with his direction or not, you have to respect his ability to push the bureaucrats. You can be sure it isn't easy to get them to do anything, and it probably looks a lot like House of Cards, but with 2000 years of subtle, nuanced culture to boot. Anyway, Abe does nothing more effectively than towing the line for America. In terms of global stability, it's the right play. As for apologizing, I think it's a stupid issue. Everyone who was involved in Japan's imperialist past is dead now. If every country was required to apologize on a regular schedule for its transgressions, we would never get anything done. Will Obama apologize when he visits Hiroshima this year? I don't expect him to, and I don't care if he does. I think it's nice that he will visit, and that the leaders of the world will convene near Ise shrine, which is one of the most exceptional treasures that mankind has used its considerable skills to accomplish and preserve.
    - alphonsegaston 11y ago
      Action in and of itself is not a virtue, especially when many of his iniatives take square aim at dismantling democratic freedoms. This is akin to the fetishization of "speed" by Italian futurists that paved the way for fascism's rise in Italy. And his coalition has long-standing ties to the yakuza and the CIA, so I guess it is "powerful" to the extent that it's aligned itself with malevolent actors whom his opponents would rather not consort with out of baseline morality. Again, I see nothing worthy of respect here or with the other corrupt regimes backed up with similar means. Everyone involved with Japan's imperialist past may be dead, but some of its victims are not - for example surviving comfort women in Korea. Abe has on many occasions pandered to the extreme right by denying that anything was perpetrated against these people. I can't imagine being a victim of state-sponsored rape and having your experience further denied everytime a prime minister needs to curry favor. But I guess if "stuff needs to get done," that's just the cost of doing business. http://www.japansubculture.com/how-the-cia-helped-put-the-yakuza-and-the-ldp-in-power/ http://www.japansubculture.com/how-the-cia-helped-put-the-ya...
achamayou 11y ago
To be fair, the way America and Europe are represented in Japanese media is hardly accurate either. I think you should temper your depressed feelings with some bemusement at how cultures never quite understand each other. That's what I would expect a wise oji-san to do anyway.
- nihonde 11y ago
  I lived in America for almost 40 years. I'm familiar with the place.
  - achamayou 11y ago
    I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I've lived in Japan and in Europe for a number of years, and I've always found that the respective media failed to describe the other place in a way that I felt was accurate. I've come to be rather amused by that, that's all. For what it's worth I do agree with you, for all the doom and gloom about Japan post-recession in the western media, it is very good place to live. I do believe that the overwhelming majority of the residents agree, and are voting with their feet accordingly.
    - nihonde 11y ago
      Yes! The media is a pernicious influence. We hear this so often, but it seems insurmountable and inevitable. In Japan, the media is complicit in silence about many important issues, but it is also overwhelmingly positive in tone. Television in Japan is either hilarious, emotional, or informative. When I went to the US embassy in Osaka, they had CNN on in the waiting room and I wanted to weep for my countrymen. It is like a poison gas in the air——you can know it's there and that it's not good for you, but that won't alter the effect that it has.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
Chris2048 11y ago
> which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates lowest reported life expectancy, lowest reported crime rate.
- blowski 11y ago
  Is there reason to believe they are both significantly misreported in Japan, compared to the US and EU? Genuine question as I've never seen otherwise but would be interested in reading about it. ===== I found this article about under reported crime, but couldn't find anything about the life expectancy being wrong. Japan's Police See No Evil (LA Times) http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9 http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9
  - Chris2048 11y ago
    This is certainly reason to doubt it; or at least specify that this is a self reported statistic when singing Japan's praises.
    - blowski 11y ago
      Well it's self-reported in the US and EU as well. Unless you can establish reasonable grounds to believe the statistics are significantly wrong, refusing to believe them just sounds nihilistic.
      - Chris2048 11y ago
        nihilistic? As in "rejecting all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless"? In any case, what's to believe? We're comparing stats here, so we have to consider that maybe this isn't a legitimate exercise in the first place. Like comparing UK sexual-assault statistic in order to derive a ranking. Without a basis for error, our conclusions may be poor.
  - mantas 11y ago
    There may be slight amount of misreporting. But that exists more or less everywhere, thus it evens out IMO. In my experience, both low crime rate and long life expectancy seems more or less true. Source: lived in Japan
facepalm 11y ago
Thinking of WWII, Japan's culture was not always on the right track... Coming from Germany, I also wonder how much of the economic success stories of Japan and Germany is really because of cultural aspects, and how much is due to protectionism for example from the US. I think Germany was supported by the US a lot, as a shield against communism. Maybe a similar reasoning was at work in Japan.
- nihonde 11y ago
  Nothing happens in a vacuum. There are no "good guys" or "bad guys". Japan and Germany both pursued an agenda that were each ultimately misguided for a variety of different reasons. If you look for it, you will find similarly awful (and sometimes far worse) encroachments on the rights of human beings perpetrated by all kinds of people against all kinds of people. The important point is that the people who did those things are dead now. It's up to you and I to understand how they got to that point, and make decisions to avoid it happening again. Unfortunately, the history we're taught in school is very simplistic and does little to illuminate the causes for such an effect. In the end, the fact that Japan and Germany made a run for world domination is a signal that there is great strength and power in those civilizations. We should be looking for all the ways to harness that power to good ends.
  - facepalm 11y ago
    I didn't say they are still fascists, just pointed out that their culture has also gone wrong at times, too.
  - alphonsegaston 11y ago
    Or simply that they were enamored with the colonial example of the west and had a tradition of extreme militarism and more fortunate historical circumstances that allowed them to project this sadistic fantasy on to their neighbors. I think you should be cautious in positing "world domination," premised on mass-genocide and slavery, as a sign of strength. It was a massive regression of humanity that was thankfully checked.
    - 11y ago
ekianjo 11y ago
> I would rather live in a "poor" Japan than in a "rich" America any day of the week. You can't put a price on peace of mind and the general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause. It's not like you have only these two choices. You can live in fast developing countries as well, or even Europe can be a fine place to live depending on your location and you wages.
- nihonde 11y ago
  I love the north of Europe. My blood and family are there. It is the only other place in the world where rational minds combine with a long, distinguished history of building on success. I hope we will find a way to share between east and west the hard lessons of our past!
alphonsegaston 11y ago
While I want to agree with this sentiment, the problem I see is that Japanese government has largely functioned as a client state of the American empire you're contrasting it with. There was a brief moment of true democratic impulses in the post-occupation period, but this was arguably quashed by the passing of ANPO and the rise to power of the CIA-backed LDP.¹ The peace and stability you prize seems premised on cowing to American interests that undermine it as they see fit(TTP and constitutional revisionism come to mind), or America being all in (and successful) at checking the imperial ambitions of China. 1. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-to-support-japanese-right-in-50-s-and-60-s.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-t...
- nihonde 11y ago
  I couldn't agree more. It is a strategy of appeasement that is as effective as it is unsustainable. My guess is that Japan will outlast America on the scale of history, but that's pure speculation, and national identities are as fluid as everything else in this world anyway.
vasilipupkin 11y ago
your comment is data free. The article is specifically about growing poverty, which can be quantified. It is not about how Japan is a terrible or a great place to live. For example, according to this http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/ the poor in Japan live on 8.4K a year, while in Germany they live on 13k a year. Big difference
- nihonde 11y ago
  From that report, Japan's rank for household financial wealth: 3 / 36. Anyway, the OECD report is highly suspect, IMO. It certainly doesn't tell the story that I've lived.
  - dastbe 11y ago
    if I went by the story I've lived, I would assume that everyone in America makes six figures. I appreciate your optimism, but you can't let hope get in the way of data.
    - nihonde 11y ago
      Well, I've made a lot of money in America and been afforded all of the privileges, but every North American city I've ever lived in had a miserable, destitute area and plenty of visibly neglected people, not to mention the background noise of violent crime and sleazy people who will take any advantage they can get. I wish it wasn't true, but it simply is. I've lived on the west coast, east coast, south and Canada. We really need to change our outlook if we hope to clean up our house. It starts with positive thinking.
      - kafkaesque 11y ago
        I'm ready to take all the downvotes. You have lived a very privileged life in Japan, my friend. I have travelled to Japan and have a fiancee who is Zainichi North Korean. I urge you to stop interpreting Japanese culture with such extreme rose-coloured glasses and tone down your extreme positivity because it is blinding you from having the "balanced view" you say you have of Japan. Furthermore, it is insulting to minorities in Japan, which has a racist, insular, homogenous culture that so rigidly controls what is "true" and what is "false". The difference is that racism in Japan manifests itself in less violent and direct ways, as the culture of honne and tatemae is so prevalent. So it's difficult for foreigners to distinguish these things at face value. If you compare types of crimes and the types of "bad things" in the US to Japan, you will see Japan has very little of the "bad" things the US has. That is not the point, however. For example, I read an article that car accidents are up there as the leading causes of most deaths in the US. The Japanophile will remark how great Japan is because cars are not the leading deaths in Japan. But what the Japanophile will not tell you is that Japan has a high suicide rate, Hokkaido residents have the highest rate of heart disease in the world due to their consumption of sodium, and other issues that are probably specific to Japan. There are very few robberies in Japan, but sexual harassment and sexual assaults are so common that there are specially designated areas and classes for women only. The sexual predators known as "chikan" have targeted foreigners, as well. It is so widespread that there are public service announcements advising women to be cautious. Does this happen in the US? Yes, but not to the degree that it happens in Japan. I'm sure you don't know what it feels like to be eating at a sushi restaurant with your family and an old Japanese "steward" interrogating you about why you don't pay taxes and still leach off the government like Zainichi North Koreans have felt. These stewards' reasons are unfounded, of course, and an explanation of this would be too lengthy to write in this box. Homelessness? Please tell me what your thoughts are on Kamagasaki: http://viewfind.com/story/fruits-of-his-labor-or-lack-thereof http://viewfind.com/story/fruits-of-his-labor-or-lack-thereo... For reference: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/nishinari/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/nishinari/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/03/24/national/nations-biggest-slum-cannot-be-found-on-maps-or-at-osaka-film-fest/#.VyD339QrLs0 http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/03/24/national/nations... Japan has many wonderful things, but what I have learnt is that Japan has specific problems related closely to their unique culture. It's tempting to consider Japan as the better country simply because it lacks the bad that the US has. But I believe the wise thing to do is consider the opinions of those Japanese that want to leave their own country and their reasons for doing so. This way, you get a more balanced view. It is definitely a trade-off, and it is about your priorities.
pessimizer 11y ago
> Western commentators will tell us that huge bloc of elders are an impossible burden on Japanese society. It's only a certain type of ideological commentator, who also tend to insist on the contradiction that the burden of a growing number of elderly is unsustainable for the working age population, but that we are also all being automated out of our jobs.
- ralusek 11y ago
  What about that is a contradiction? Either through public services such as social security, or traditional family values (which are obviously strong in Japan), the elderly invariably become a burden on younger generations. On the most basic level, when the day comes that my father can no longer work for his food, he will pull from social resources and I will personally be responsible for his welfare. A healthy economic landscape is prepared to receive such a burden and cycle it indefinitely through the generations. A population of elders with a disproportionately small pool of working-aged adults throws this balance out, and is obviously a threat. If you combine that with the fact that those few who are capable of working to support the older generation are without question losing their jobs to automation, I don't see how the combined effect isn't an obvious and looming threat. When you say that those two things are a contradiction, are you suggesting that the commentator is incorrectly pointing out that this is a contradiction when it isn't, or are you saying that the commentator is mentioning these two things, and you yourself think they are a contradiction?
jazzyk 11y ago
>You can't put a price on peace of mind The peace of mind may not last too long. The Japanese public debt exceeded one quadrillion yen (US$10.46 trillion) in 2013, more than twice the annual gross domestic product of Japan [1]. >general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause. Yes, the US could use a bit more civility. But in Japan, the "willingness to come together" comes at a price - of culturally suppressed individual expression. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_public_debt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_public_debt
- nihonde 11y ago
  I have this thought that I want to express to you but I fear that it will prompt disagreement or come across as confrontational or dismissive when I really mean it in the spirit of compassion. I will do my best: The words you wrote reflect a state of mind that seeks a negative outcome. I'm sure you don't intend it, but you adopt a half-empty perspective. It's the same tone that the mainstream news media uses when it turns its attention to Japan. I wish I could convey to you how much that mindset is a symptom of a sickness in your environment. I don't mean to sound condescending, but it was an important revelation for me to learn that my tendency to express unhelpful skepticism and pessimism is, in fact, not inherent to myself but rather is a feature of the condition around me. I'm sorry if it is too abstract or rude, but I encourage you to seek a more hopeful outlook. We could trade evidence of ruination of east and west all day (night for me), but what would we have accomplished? I'd prefer if we (perhaps naively) focus on those things each side is doing well. That can really move the world forward!
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    I've been to Japan a few times and I like many aspects of life there (I love Japanese art/sense of aesthetics, for example). I certainly wish the best to all humans, the Japanese people included. But we are discussing economics, and "hope" does not work in economics. Numbers do, and they do not add up. Japanese culture does not like confrontation and therefore it tends to hide/gloss over problems, be they economic (the last 20 years of not making bold decisions to get out of the stagnation) or managerial (see the Fukushima disaster initial cover up). I am just providing a reality-based counterpoint to your over-romanticized, in my opinion, view on Japan. Every country/culture has their pluses/minuses.
hackuser 11y ago
What does 'endure' mean? It dismisses the very real suffering of others, which depends on economics, demographics, politics, and other big issues.
yongjik 11y ago
> We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations... Somehow I keep hearing this when Japan is mentioned, and I have to wonder where this conception comes from. According to Wikipedia, the Kofun Period, the "earliest era of recorded history in Japan," starts around AD 250. For comparison, Ramses II ruled 1279-1213 BC. Alexander the Great 336-323 BC, China's first emperor 220-210 BC.

by nihonde 11y ago

_Codemonkeyism 11y ago

"They've seen first-hand the folly of chasing America and Europe on their imperialist fancies." Interesting view on history.

fit2rule 11y ago
I'd see it more as a comment on the here and now. History is one thing. The wanton destruction of other nation states at the present time, another thing entirely.
nihonde 11y ago
Well, it was intended as an "aside" comment, but it's still interesting, if controversial. I believe that there is an unbroken thread from the arrival of American ships in Tokyo bay in 1853 to the current day. If you look at the official US history of that event (it's here: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/opening-to-japan https://history.state.gov/milestones/1830-1860/opening-to-ja...), it is characterized as a great opening of Japan to the world. In fact, it was in the pursuit of an arrogant imperialist notion of "Manifest Destiny" that Commodore Perry humiliated the Japanese and scared them into thinking that they needed to get into the expansion and conquest game in order to survive. It was a clear message from the Americans: we're coming in whether you like it or not. Some call it a wake up call; others call it a provocation. Reasonable men and women can disagree about it. There's no doubt that it directly led to the lowest and highest points of Japanese civilization in the 20th century, though. I think if people looked into the context of events with more curiosity, we would ultimately all benefit from the inquiry. (And yes, I do believe that America and much of Europe are still pursuing an imperialist agenda. Call me crazy, if you want.)
- _Codemonkeyism 11y ago
  Following this line of thought I would assume America is chasing Europe on their imperialist fancy, Europe (modern) those of the British, the British chasing Romes fancies, Rome those of the Greeks, the Greeks those of the Egyptians (and Persians?) and the Egyptians those of Sumer. This probably goes on though noone left writings before the Sumerians (but my knowledge is fague here). I would also assume the invasions e.g. of Korea by Japanese before 1853 where not imperialist by intention.
  - nihonde 11y ago
    Great point about Toyotomi Hideyoshi's attempt to conquer Korean and China! I guess the legacy of the Edo period was a kind of reset on that ambition, because the country was closed and not looking for a fight. I would say it was actually the failure of the shogunate to stand up to Commodore Perry that ended Edo and kicked off the outward-looking Meiji. I'm no expert in this area, but I enjoy learning about it.
    - jazzyk 11y ago
      What about the post-Meiji period? The attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 was just a misunderstood act of extending an olive branch?
      - nihonde 11y ago
        (Again my views only.) I think it was a direct reaction to the aggression of 1853. It was preceded by posturing/maneuvering in the South Pacific if I'm not mistaken. To be clear, I don't think it was justified or proportionate, but I do think those events were closely linked in that Japan saw Americans as encroaching on their sovereignty and an imminent threat from the "East".
      - SEJeff 11y ago
        Much like the Norsemen were misunderstood by the Celts/Gaels in Ireland (whom they slaughtered)
alphonsegaston 11y ago
Although this may be true for a wide swathe of Japanese citizens, the ruling party of Japan has a long history of whitewashing Japan's imperialist past, making this argument tenuous at best. Abe Shinzo's government has been actively dismantling press freedoms to quell anything resembling dissent on this front as well, while his colleagues openly reference the Nazi's rise to power as an exemplar. http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-japan-press-freedom-20160420-story.html http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-japan-press-freedom-...
- nihonde 11y ago
  It's an interesting problem. I don't like Abe very much, but I respect him. I wonder if most people understand what a powerful coalition he has in the current government? He is one of the most powerful leaders in the history of Japan by that measure. What makes him different is his emphasis on action. He says that he endured many years when the ruling party was hesitant to take action, and he was determined to move the nation in his time. Whether you agree with his direction or not, you have to respect his ability to push the bureaucrats. You can be sure it isn't easy to get them to do anything, and it probably looks a lot like House of Cards, but with 2000 years of subtle, nuanced culture to boot. Anyway, Abe does nothing more effectively than towing the line for America. In terms of global stability, it's the right play. As for apologizing, I think it's a stupid issue. Everyone who was involved in Japan's imperialist past is dead now. If every country was required to apologize on a regular schedule for its transgressions, we would never get anything done. Will Obama apologize when he visits Hiroshima this year? I don't expect him to, and I don't care if he does. I think it's nice that he will visit, and that the leaders of the world will convene near Ise shrine, which is one of the most exceptional treasures that mankind has used its considerable skills to accomplish and preserve.
  - alphonsegaston 11y ago
    Action in and of itself is not a virtue, especially when many of his iniatives take square aim at dismantling democratic freedoms. This is akin to the fetishization of "speed" by Italian futurists that paved the way for fascism's rise in Italy. And his coalition has long-standing ties to the yakuza and the CIA, so I guess it is "powerful" to the extent that it's aligned itself with malevolent actors whom his opponents would rather not consort with out of baseline morality. Again, I see nothing worthy of respect here or with the other corrupt regimes backed up with similar means. Everyone involved with Japan's imperialist past may be dead, but some of its victims are not - for example surviving comfort women in Korea. Abe has on many occasions pandered to the extreme right by denying that anything was perpetrated against these people. I can't imagine being a victim of state-sponsored rape and having your experience further denied everytime a prime minister needs to curry favor. But I guess if "stuff needs to get done," that's just the cost of doing business. http://www.japansubculture.com/how-the-cia-helped-put-the-yakuza-and-the-ldp-in-power/ http://www.japansubculture.com/how-the-cia-helped-put-the-ya...

achamayou 11y ago

To be fair, the way America and Europe are represented in Japanese media is hardly accurate either. I think you should temper your depressed feelings with some bemusement at how cultures never quite understand each other. That's what I would expect a wise oji-san to do anyway.

nihonde 11y ago
I lived in America for almost 40 years. I'm familiar with the place.
- achamayou 11y ago
  I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I've lived in Japan and in Europe for a number of years, and I've always found that the respective media failed to describe the other place in a way that I felt was accurate. I've come to be rather amused by that, that's all. For what it's worth I do agree with you, for all the doom and gloom about Japan post-recession in the western media, it is very good place to live. I do believe that the overwhelming majority of the residents agree, and are voting with their feet accordingly.
  - nihonde 11y ago
    Yes! The media is a pernicious influence. We hear this so often, but it seems insurmountable and inevitable. In Japan, the media is complicit in silence about many important issues, but it is also overwhelmingly positive in tone. Television in Japan is either hilarious, emotional, or informative. When I went to the US embassy in Osaka, they had CNN on in the waiting room and I wanted to weep for my countrymen. It is like a poison gas in the air——you can know it's there and that it's not good for you, but that won't alter the effect that it has.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

Chris2048 11y ago

> which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates lowest reported life expectancy, lowest reported crime rate.

blowski 11y ago
Is there reason to believe they are both significantly misreported in Japan, compared to the US and EU? Genuine question as I've never seen otherwise but would be interested in reading about it. ===== I found this article about under reported crime, but couldn't find anything about the life expectancy being wrong. Japan's Police See No Evil (LA Times) http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9 http://articles.latimes.com/2007/nov/09/world/fg-autopsy9
- Chris2048 11y ago
  This is certainly reason to doubt it; or at least specify that this is a self reported statistic when singing Japan's praises.
  - blowski 11y ago
    Well it's self-reported in the US and EU as well. Unless you can establish reasonable grounds to believe the statistics are significantly wrong, refusing to believe them just sounds nihilistic.
    - Chris2048 11y ago
      nihilistic? As in "rejecting all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless"? In any case, what's to believe? We're comparing stats here, so we have to consider that maybe this isn't a legitimate exercise in the first place. Like comparing UK sexual-assault statistic in order to derive a ranking. Without a basis for error, our conclusions may be poor.
- mantas 11y ago
  There may be slight amount of misreporting. But that exists more or less everywhere, thus it evens out IMO. In my experience, both low crime rate and long life expectancy seems more or less true. Source: lived in Japan

facepalm 11y ago

Thinking of WWII, Japan's culture was not always on the right track... Coming from Germany, I also wonder how much of the economic success stories of Japan and Germany is really because of cultural aspects, and how much is due to protectionism for example from the US. I think Germany was supported by the US a lot, as a shield against communism. Maybe a similar reasoning was at work in Japan.

nihonde 11y ago
Nothing happens in a vacuum. There are no "good guys" or "bad guys". Japan and Germany both pursued an agenda that were each ultimately misguided for a variety of different reasons. If you look for it, you will find similarly awful (and sometimes far worse) encroachments on the rights of human beings perpetrated by all kinds of people against all kinds of people. The important point is that the people who did those things are dead now. It's up to you and I to understand how they got to that point, and make decisions to avoid it happening again. Unfortunately, the history we're taught in school is very simplistic and does little to illuminate the causes for such an effect. In the end, the fact that Japan and Germany made a run for world domination is a signal that there is great strength and power in those civilizations. We should be looking for all the ways to harness that power to good ends.
- facepalm 11y ago
  I didn't say they are still fascists, just pointed out that their culture has also gone wrong at times, too.
- alphonsegaston 11y ago
  Or simply that they were enamored with the colonial example of the west and had a tradition of extreme militarism and more fortunate historical circumstances that allowed them to project this sadistic fantasy on to their neighbors. I think you should be cautious in positing "world domination," premised on mass-genocide and slavery, as a sign of strength. It was a massive regression of humanity that was thankfully checked.
  - 11y ago

ekianjo 11y ago

> I would rather live in a "poor" Japan than in a "rich" America any day of the week. You can't put a price on peace of mind and the general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause. It's not like you have only these two choices. You can live in fast developing countries as well, or even Europe can be a fine place to live depending on your location and you wages.

nihonde 11y ago
I love the north of Europe. My blood and family are there. It is the only other place in the world where rational minds combine with a long, distinguished history of building on success. I hope we will find a way to share between east and west the hard lessons of our past!

alphonsegaston 11y ago

While I want to agree with this sentiment, the problem I see is that Japanese government has largely functioned as a client state of the American empire you're contrasting it with. There was a brief moment of true democratic impulses in the post-occupation period, but this was arguably quashed by the passing of ANPO and the rise to power of the CIA-backed LDP.¹ The peace and stability you prize seems premised on cowing to American interests that undermine it as they see fit(TTP and constitutional revisionism come to mind), or America being all in (and successful) at checking the imperial ambitions of China. 1. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-to-support-japanese-right-in-50-s-and-60-s.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/09/world/cia-spent-millions-t...

nihonde 11y ago
I couldn't agree more. It is a strategy of appeasement that is as effective as it is unsustainable. My guess is that Japan will outlast America on the scale of history, but that's pure speculation, and national identities are as fluid as everything else in this world anyway.

vasilipupkin 11y ago

your comment is data free. The article is specifically about growing poverty, which can be quantified. It is not about how Japan is a terrible or a great place to live. For example, according to this http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/ http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/ the poor in Japan live on 8.4K a year, while in Germany they live on 13k a year. Big difference

nihonde 11y ago
From that report, Japan's rank for household financial wealth: 3 / 36. Anyway, the OECD report is highly suspect, IMO. It certainly doesn't tell the story that I've lived.
- dastbe 11y ago
  if I went by the story I've lived, I would assume that everyone in America makes six figures. I appreciate your optimism, but you can't let hope get in the way of data.
  - nihonde 11y ago
    Well, I've made a lot of money in America and been afforded all of the privileges, but every North American city I've ever lived in had a miserable, destitute area and plenty of visibly neglected people, not to mention the background noise of violent crime and sleazy people who will take any advantage they can get. I wish it wasn't true, but it simply is. I've lived on the west coast, east coast, south and Canada. We really need to change our outlook if we hope to clean up our house. It starts with positive thinking.
    - kafkaesque 11y ago
      I'm ready to take all the downvotes. You have lived a very privileged life in Japan, my friend. I have travelled to Japan and have a fiancee who is Zainichi North Korean. I urge you to stop interpreting Japanese culture with such extreme rose-coloured glasses and tone down your extreme positivity because it is blinding you from having the "balanced view" you say you have of Japan. Furthermore, it is insulting to minorities in Japan, which has a racist, insular, homogenous culture that so rigidly controls what is "true" and what is "false". The difference is that racism in Japan manifests itself in less violent and direct ways, as the culture of honne and tatemae is so prevalent. So it's difficult for foreigners to distinguish these things at face value. If you compare types of crimes and the types of "bad things" in the US to Japan, you will see Japan has very little of the "bad" things the US has. That is not the point, however. For example, I read an article that car accidents are up there as the leading causes of most deaths in the US. The Japanophile will remark how great Japan is because cars are not the leading deaths in Japan. But what the Japanophile will not tell you is that Japan has a high suicide rate, Hokkaido residents have the highest rate of heart disease in the world due to their consumption of sodium, and other issues that are probably specific to Japan. There are very few robberies in Japan, but sexual harassment and sexual assaults are so common that there are specially designated areas and classes for women only. The sexual predators known as "chikan" have targeted foreigners, as well. It is so widespread that there are public service announcements advising women to be cautious. Does this happen in the US? Yes, but not to the degree that it happens in Japan. I'm sure you don't know what it feels like to be eating at a sushi restaurant with your family and an old Japanese "steward" interrogating you about why you don't pay taxes and still leach off the government like Zainichi North Koreans have felt. These stewards' reasons are unfounded, of course, and an explanation of this would be too lengthy to write in this box. Homelessness? Please tell me what your thoughts are on Kamagasaki: http://viewfind.com/story/fruits-of-his-labor-or-lack-thereof http://viewfind.com/story/fruits-of-his-labor-or-lack-thereo... For reference: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/nishinari/ https://www.tofugu.com/japan/nishinari/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/03/24/national/nations-biggest-slum-cannot-be-found-on-maps-or-at-osaka-film-fest/#.VyD339QrLs0 http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/03/24/national/nations... Japan has many wonderful things, but what I have learnt is that Japan has specific problems related closely to their unique culture. It's tempting to consider Japan as the better country simply because it lacks the bad that the US has. But I believe the wise thing to do is consider the opinions of those Japanese that want to leave their own country and their reasons for doing so. This way, you get a more balanced view. It is definitely a trade-off, and it is about your priorities.

pessimizer 11y ago

> Western commentators will tell us that huge bloc of elders are an impossible burden on Japanese society. It's only a certain type of ideological commentator, who also tend to insist on the contradiction that the burden of a growing number of elderly is unsustainable for the working age population, but that we are also all being automated out of our jobs.

ralusek 11y ago
What about that is a contradiction? Either through public services such as social security, or traditional family values (which are obviously strong in Japan), the elderly invariably become a burden on younger generations. On the most basic level, when the day comes that my father can no longer work for his food, he will pull from social resources and I will personally be responsible for his welfare. A healthy economic landscape is prepared to receive such a burden and cycle it indefinitely through the generations. A population of elders with a disproportionately small pool of working-aged adults throws this balance out, and is obviously a threat. If you combine that with the fact that those few who are capable of working to support the older generation are without question losing their jobs to automation, I don't see how the combined effect isn't an obvious and looming threat. When you say that those two things are a contradiction, are you suggesting that the commentator is incorrectly pointing out that this is a contradiction when it isn't, or are you saying that the commentator is mentioning these two things, and you yourself think they are a contradiction?

jazzyk 11y ago

>You can't put a price on peace of mind The peace of mind may not last too long. The Japanese public debt exceeded one quadrillion yen (US$10.46 trillion) in 2013, more than twice the annual gross domestic product of Japan [1]. >general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause. Yes, the US could use a bit more civility. But in Japan, the "willingness to come together" comes at a price - of culturally suppressed individual expression. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_public_debt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_public_debt

nihonde 11y ago
I have this thought that I want to express to you but I fear that it will prompt disagreement or come across as confrontational or dismissive when I really mean it in the spirit of compassion. I will do my best: The words you wrote reflect a state of mind that seeks a negative outcome. I'm sure you don't intend it, but you adopt a half-empty perspective. It's the same tone that the mainstream news media uses when it turns its attention to Japan. I wish I could convey to you how much that mindset is a symptom of a sickness in your environment. I don't mean to sound condescending, but it was an important revelation for me to learn that my tendency to express unhelpful skepticism and pessimism is, in fact, not inherent to myself but rather is a feature of the condition around me. I'm sorry if it is too abstract or rude, but I encourage you to seek a more hopeful outlook. We could trade evidence of ruination of east and west all day (night for me), but what would we have accomplished? I'd prefer if we (perhaps naively) focus on those things each side is doing well. That can really move the world forward!
- jazzyk 11y ago
  I've been to Japan a few times and I like many aspects of life there (I love Japanese art/sense of aesthetics, for example). I certainly wish the best to all humans, the Japanese people included. But we are discussing economics, and "hope" does not work in economics. Numbers do, and they do not add up. Japanese culture does not like confrontation and therefore it tends to hide/gloss over problems, be they economic (the last 20 years of not making bold decisions to get out of the stagnation) or managerial (see the Fukushima disaster initial cover up). I am just providing a reality-based counterpoint to your over-romanticized, in my opinion, view on Japan. Every country/culture has their pluses/minuses.

hackuser 11y ago

What does 'endure' mean? It dismisses the very real suffering of others, which depends on economics, demographics, politics, and other big issues.

yongjik 11y ago

> We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations... Somehow I keep hearing this when Japan is mentioned, and I have to wonder where this conception comes from. According to Wikipedia, the Kofun Period, the "earliest era of recorded history in Japan," starts around AD 250. For comparison, Ramses II ruled 1279-1213 BC. Alexander the Great 336-323 BC, China's first emperor 220-210 BC.