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Is there a plan for Node.js to get `import` any times soon? Will we need babel in order to use this for months? years? ever?

bmeck 10y ago
https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modules.md https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modul... was merged today; v8 C++ API for node to truly support it has not been implemented yet, should be in next LTS at current pace (next year).
- spankalee 10y ago
  Wow, a new extension for ES modules? That seems really unfortunate. Why can't node parse a file to detect if it's a module? The presence of a top-level import or export means it's a module. If it's not, then the parsed file can be kept if the file is also in strict mode. If it's sloppy, it'll have to be re-parsed. Seems like a small penalty if the goal is to enable migration. Also, why worry about ES modules importing Common JS? Just disallow that and let projects migrate to ES modules bottom-up. Then you don't have to worry about executing a Common JS module to determine what its exports are or circular dependency problems.
  - bmeck 10y ago
    There is a pretty epic thread that I suggest you just read the tail end of https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/3#issuecomment-214761400 https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/3#issuecomment-21476... . Basically we tried detection via source code as the first proposal; ambiguities at runtime that do not throw errors make it absolutely impossible to do safely, performance problems, and tooling integration problems.
    - gedy 10y ago
      Subjective, but .mjs just sounds horrid..
      - bmeck 10y ago
        We looked at several alternative extensions and it was the least egregious of them: https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modules.md#reason-for-decision https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modul...
banhfun 10y ago
It needs to be implemented in V8 before Node.js can support it.
- hiphipjorge 10y ago
  Are there any plans for V8 to do that soon?
  - empyrical 10y ago
    They're working on it: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/v8/issues/detail?id=1569 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/v8/issues/detail?id=1569
inglor 10y ago
There is/was a vote on this pretty soon. We are deciding how modules would work - with a new file extension? With a module.json? With a separate entry entry in package.json? Lots of decisions to be made :)
- bmeck 10y ago
  Vote was at: https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/5648 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/5648
- abritinthebay 10y ago
  Surely they should work the way they work in ES6? Any solution that requires extra work (file extension, another file to maintain) is a non-starter. Frankly it should work how Babel transpiles it - because there's no reason for it not to.
  - mudetroit 10y ago
    ES6 didn't define precisely how module loading worked, one of the reasons it isn't actually implemented yet. And there are actual reasons why the method babel currently uses won't precisely match the actual implementations (see hierarchal v flat dependencies)
    - abritinthebay 10y ago
      Those problems are just as present in CJS as far as I'm aware though...? Yet they were solved for that.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]

bmeck 10y ago

https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modules.md https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modul... was merged today; v8 C++ API for node to truly support it has not been implemented yet, should be in next LTS at current pace (next year).

spankalee 10y ago
Wow, a new extension for ES modules? That seems really unfortunate. Why can't node parse a file to detect if it's a module? The presence of a top-level import or export means it's a module. If it's not, then the parsed file can be kept if the file is also in strict mode. If it's sloppy, it'll have to be re-parsed. Seems like a small penalty if the goal is to enable migration. Also, why worry about ES modules importing Common JS? Just disallow that and let projects migrate to ES modules bottom-up. Then you don't have to worry about executing a Common JS module to determine what its exports are or circular dependency problems.
- bmeck 10y ago
  There is a pretty epic thread that I suggest you just read the tail end of https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/3#issuecomment-214761400 https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/3#issuecomment-21476... . Basically we tried detection via source code as the first proposal; ambiguities at runtime that do not throw errors make it absolutely impossible to do safely, performance problems, and tooling integration problems.
  - gedy 10y ago
    Subjective, but .mjs just sounds horrid..
    - bmeck 10y ago
      We looked at several alternative extensions and it was the least egregious of them: https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modules.md#reason-for-decision https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/blob/master/002-es6-modul...

banhfun 10y ago

It needs to be implemented in V8 before Node.js can support it.

hiphipjorge 10y ago
Are there any plans for V8 to do that soon?
- empyrical 10y ago
  They're working on it: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/v8/issues/detail?id=1569 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/v8/issues/detail?id=1569

inglor 10y ago

There is/was a vote on this pretty soon. We are deciding how modules would work - with a new file extension? With a module.json? With a separate entry entry in package.json? Lots of decisions to be made :)

bmeck 10y ago
Vote was at: https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/5648 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/5648
abritinthebay 10y ago
Surely they should work the way they work in ES6? Any solution that requires extra work (file extension, another file to maintain) is a non-starter. Frankly it should work how Babel transpiles it - because there's no reason for it not to.
- mudetroit 10y ago
  ES6 didn't define precisely how module loading worked, one of the reasons it isn't actually implemented yet. And there are actual reasons why the method babel currently uses won't precisely match the actual implementations (see hierarchal v flat dependencies)
  - abritinthebay 10y ago
    Those problems are just as present in CJS as far as I'm aware though...? Yet they were solved for that.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]