11 ms·

To me its real problem is that it's almost indistinct from long-press. Combine that with Apple's poor UX discoverability (I'm looking at you, swipe-from-the-sid

by rqebmm 10y ago

To me its real problem is that it's almost indistinct from long-press. Combine that with Apple's poor UX discoverability (I'm looking at you, swipe-from-the-side-to-see-iMessage-timestamps!) and 3D Touch is basically useless.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> "To me its real problem is that it's almost indistinct from long-press." Are you saying this as someone who actually uses the feature? Because in my experience a long press and 3D are very distinct. In fact 3D touch makes it quite difficult to long press on home screen icons to delete them.
- rqebmm 10y ago
  I meant as a UX design pattern.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    Ah ok I understand. That's true.
dandelany 10y ago
Yeah, Force Touch has really compounded their problems of overloaded and undiscoverable UX. I realized this recently when trying to tell a family member how to rearrange their home screen icons. It used to be "hold down an icon until it wiggles, then drag it". Now it's "hold down an icon, but not too hard, until it starts wiggling. What do you mean there's a popup?! Oh you pressed too hard. Tap somewhere else to close the popup and try holding down an icon again."
orbitur 10y ago
3D Touch should've replaced long press. I hate that I have to wait, I don't care that it's 0.4 of a second. A long press is a concession to the fact that there's no physical button, and 3D Touch should've solved this problem. But instead I end up triggering a 3D Touch when I want to delete an app.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  What surprises me is that they didn't try to use it to make the keyboard more "physical". If the OSK can distinguish a finger resting from a finger pressing, then you get closer to that of a physical keyboard. Especially if the resting part can be tied in with the vibration engine to give a slight nudge to indicate edges of keys, or some such.
  - galistoca 10y ago
    That sounds like emulating for the sake of emulating. I'm sure even you would hate it if you actually saw it in production. Typing on keyboard is shitty as it is. By making it force touch, it will be much slower to finish a sentence. When people use physical keyboards their fingers are by default resting on the keys. When most users type on mobile, they're not. It's easier to NOT rest fingers on the keys than resting for so many reasons, such as you not being able to see the keys if your finger is covering them.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      And that is where the vibrate comes in. the keyboard is of a known layout, and by marking by feel when you move from one key to the next you know where you are. This allows the keyboard to be operated without looking, much like how most people use a ordinary keyboard today once they are past the hunt-and-peck stage. A big reason for touch screens being a problem in many situations is that you have to actually look at it to operate it. Physical buttons, switches and knobs can be operated by touch alone. Frankly way too much of modern computing relies on sight and sight alone. Also, allowing someone to rest on the keyboard is why long typing sessions are not such a strain on the hands. Without it, the writs has to carry the weight of the fingers continually.
      - galistoca 10y ago
        I'm guessing you downvoted me because you disagree with my point of view. I'll just tell you this: I have been thinking a lot about the stuff you talk about here and even prototyped a hardware device to try out the idea. I had the same point of view (It would be nice to have an input device I can use without even looking) but after experimenting I realized this isn't the case. Also this "vibration" thing you're talking about--it's obvious you haven't thought deeply about this because if you took at least a couple of hours thinking more about how this would work you would realize vibration itself has nothing to do with this". I have had a phone that gave you nice tactile feedback using vibration (Prada phone), and while it does feel nice, it doesn't do anything in terms of letting me know my input was correct. Anyway this all doesn't mean anything if you don't really believe me. So let me ask you a rhetorical question: Do you think you will be able to type into a blackberry absolutely without looking at the keyboard? Also, when exactly would you be typing while NOT looking at a mobile screen? Even on a blackberry people have to look at the screen to make sure they didn't mistype something (Even with all that tactile feedback). On a desktop computer typing without looking makes sense because that's the mode in which people use the device (whereas on a mobile phone the screen and the keyboard are attached so looking at the screen means also looking at the keyboard) Anyway if you really believe in these ideas, you should at least try an MVP or any simple experiment (or maybe even some thought experiment) before being so sure about it.
Teckla 10y ago
(I'm looking at you, swipe-from-the-side-to-see-iMessage-timestamps!) Wow, that is poor discoverability. Also, thanks so much -- I've been wanting that for ages. I never knew about it.
- techdragon 10y ago
  Your not kidding, I've had iPhones since they came to Australia (Gen 2, Gen 1 iPhones were imported but not properly available via local channels) and I heavily use the iMessage app since my plan has had "unlimited" SMS pretty much the whole time I've had an iPhone... And I NEVER saw this until I tried it 60 seconds ago.
  - bluesix 10y ago
    Only available since iOS7 or 8
- overcast 10y ago
  I've got one that might blow your mind. You can SEARCH pages in Safari, by typing in the top url/search bar, then scrolling all the way to the bottom. It will show you how many instances it's found, and you can touch to go to them!
  - vadym909 10y ago
    You mean like a CTRL F? It just did a Google Search for me
    - overcast 10y ago
      Don't hit enter, just type out what you want, then scroll down to the very bottom. The top results will be google search, then bookmarks and history, THEN "On this Page". It's totally not intuitive.
      - titanix2 10y ago
        Thank you. I searched for this feature yesterday but couldn't find it by myself.
chris_wot 10y ago
Oh boy, the amount of times I've tried to copy a URL or open a link in a new window... Now I know what's causing this annoyance! Now how to turn it off...
bobwaycott 10y ago
Weird. I kind of always expected it to be there and found it forever ago. Maybe because I was developing on iOS and knew it was a table/list view, and expected it to have a left-swipe something?
- Daneel_ 10y ago
  I'm in this camp too, but not a developer. It just seems like a lot of list views have the slide-left functionality.
gandalfu 10y ago
Dang! I just learned a new trick!! Being using an iPhone for four years. Thanks?
jbigelow76 10y ago
3D Touch is Apple's gimmicky answer to Microsoft's gimmicky Windows 8 Live Tiles. It's the feature you never knew you never needed :) BTW, thanks for the tip on the iMessage timestamps, their "seeming" absence was an obnoxious nitpick when I switched to an iPhone.
- taigeair 10y ago
  Anyone know if it's possible with FB Messenger?
  - mcintyre1994 10y ago
    You can tap a message and a timestamp appears above it.
- lagadu 10y ago
  As a Windows phone refugee living in Androidland (seriously MS, was it so hard to make a worthy successor for the 930 along with not completely abandoning the rest of the range?) live tiles is the feature I miss the most :(
  - Natanael_L 10y ago
    What about widgets isn't enough for you?
    - lagadu 10y ago
      Only a minority of the apps have them (and even fewer of those are remotely good/configurable), absolutely no consistency in the design between widgets and how they're a mix of background and icon. WP just had fantastic design patterns all around.
      - freehunter 10y ago
        That's my problem with widgets too, coming from someone who loved his Lumia 920. Widgets are ugly. Like seriously ugly. And why do some of them take up 4x4 and others only let me pick 1x4 or 2x4, and some are other stupid sizes... all I want is 2x2 tiles that match the theme of my phone. What's the point in getting a really nice theme and then ruining it with AccuWeather's horrible widget and a calendar that looks like an HTML iframe?

by rqebmm 10y ago

k-mcgrady 10y ago

>> "To me its real problem is that it's almost indistinct from long-press." Are you saying this as someone who actually uses the feature? Because in my experience a long press and 3D are very distinct. In fact 3D touch makes it quite difficult to long press on home screen icons to delete them.

rqebmm 10y ago
I meant as a UX design pattern.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  Ah ok I understand. That's true.

dandelany 10y ago

Yeah, Force Touch has really compounded their problems of overloaded and undiscoverable UX. I realized this recently when trying to tell a family member how to rearrange their home screen icons. It used to be "hold down an icon until it wiggles, then drag it". Now it's "hold down an icon, but not too hard, until it starts wiggling. What do you mean there's a popup?! Oh you pressed too hard. Tap somewhere else to close the popup and try holding down an icon again."

orbitur 10y ago

3D Touch should've replaced long press. I hate that I have to wait, I don't care that it's 0.4 of a second. A long press is a concession to the fact that there's no physical button, and 3D Touch should've solved this problem. But instead I end up triggering a 3D Touch when I want to delete an app.

digi_owl 10y ago
What surprises me is that they didn't try to use it to make the keyboard more "physical". If the OSK can distinguish a finger resting from a finger pressing, then you get closer to that of a physical keyboard. Especially if the resting part can be tied in with the vibration engine to give a slight nudge to indicate edges of keys, or some such.
- galistoca 10y ago
  That sounds like emulating for the sake of emulating. I'm sure even you would hate it if you actually saw it in production. Typing on keyboard is shitty as it is. By making it force touch, it will be much slower to finish a sentence. When people use physical keyboards their fingers are by default resting on the keys. When most users type on mobile, they're not. It's easier to NOT rest fingers on the keys than resting for so many reasons, such as you not being able to see the keys if your finger is covering them.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    And that is where the vibrate comes in. the keyboard is of a known layout, and by marking by feel when you move from one key to the next you know where you are. This allows the keyboard to be operated without looking, much like how most people use a ordinary keyboard today once they are past the hunt-and-peck stage. A big reason for touch screens being a problem in many situations is that you have to actually look at it to operate it. Physical buttons, switches and knobs can be operated by touch alone. Frankly way too much of modern computing relies on sight and sight alone. Also, allowing someone to rest on the keyboard is why long typing sessions are not such a strain on the hands. Without it, the writs has to carry the weight of the fingers continually.
    - galistoca 10y ago
      I'm guessing you downvoted me because you disagree with my point of view. I'll just tell you this: I have been thinking a lot about the stuff you talk about here and even prototyped a hardware device to try out the idea. I had the same point of view (It would be nice to have an input device I can use without even looking) but after experimenting I realized this isn't the case. Also this "vibration" thing you're talking about--it's obvious you haven't thought deeply about this because if you took at least a couple of hours thinking more about how this would work you would realize vibration itself has nothing to do with this". I have had a phone that gave you nice tactile feedback using vibration (Prada phone), and while it does feel nice, it doesn't do anything in terms of letting me know my input was correct. Anyway this all doesn't mean anything if you don't really believe me. So let me ask you a rhetorical question: Do you think you will be able to type into a blackberry absolutely without looking at the keyboard? Also, when exactly would you be typing while NOT looking at a mobile screen? Even on a blackberry people have to look at the screen to make sure they didn't mistype something (Even with all that tactile feedback). On a desktop computer typing without looking makes sense because that's the mode in which people use the device (whereas on a mobile phone the screen and the keyboard are attached so looking at the screen means also looking at the keyboard) Anyway if you really believe in these ideas, you should at least try an MVP or any simple experiment (or maybe even some thought experiment) before being so sure about it.

Teckla 10y ago

(I'm looking at you, swipe-from-the-side-to-see-iMessage-timestamps!) Wow, that is poor discoverability. Also, thanks so much -- I've been wanting that for ages. I never knew about it.

techdragon 10y ago
Your not kidding, I've had iPhones since they came to Australia (Gen 2, Gen 1 iPhones were imported but not properly available via local channels) and I heavily use the iMessage app since my plan has had "unlimited" SMS pretty much the whole time I've had an iPhone... And I NEVER saw this until I tried it 60 seconds ago.
- bluesix 10y ago
  Only available since iOS7 or 8
overcast 10y ago
I've got one that might blow your mind. You can SEARCH pages in Safari, by typing in the top url/search bar, then scrolling all the way to the bottom. It will show you how many instances it's found, and you can touch to go to them!
- vadym909 10y ago
  You mean like a CTRL F? It just did a Google Search for me
  - overcast 10y ago
    Don't hit enter, just type out what you want, then scroll down to the very bottom. The top results will be google search, then bookmarks and history, THEN "On this Page". It's totally not intuitive.
    - titanix2 10y ago
      Thank you. I searched for this feature yesterday but couldn't find it by myself.

chris_wot 10y ago

Oh boy, the amount of times I've tried to copy a URL or open a link in a new window... Now I know what's causing this annoyance! Now how to turn it off...

bobwaycott 10y ago

Weird. I kind of always expected it to be there and found it forever ago. Maybe because I was developing on iOS and knew it was a table/list view, and expected it to have a left-swipe something?

Daneel_ 10y ago
I'm in this camp too, but not a developer. It just seems like a lot of list views have the slide-left functionality.

gandalfu 10y ago

Dang! I just learned a new trick!! Being using an iPhone for four years. Thanks?

jbigelow76 10y ago

3D Touch is Apple's gimmicky answer to Microsoft's gimmicky Windows 8 Live Tiles. It's the feature you never knew you never needed :) BTW, thanks for the tip on the iMessage timestamps, their "seeming" absence was an obnoxious nitpick when I switched to an iPhone.

taigeair 10y ago
Anyone know if it's possible with FB Messenger?
- mcintyre1994 10y ago
  You can tap a message and a timestamp appears above it.
lagadu 10y ago
As a Windows phone refugee living in Androidland (seriously MS, was it so hard to make a worthy successor for the 930 along with not completely abandoning the rest of the range?) live tiles is the feature I miss the most :(
- Natanael_L 10y ago
  What about widgets isn't enough for you?
  - lagadu 10y ago
    Only a minority of the apps have them (and even fewer of those are remotely good/configurable), absolutely no consistency in the design between widgets and how they're a mix of background and icon. WP just had fantastic design patterns all around.
    - freehunter 10y ago
      That's my problem with widgets too, coming from someone who loved his Lumia 920. Widgets are ugly. Like seriously ugly. And why do some of them take up 4x4 and others only let me pick 1x4 or 2x4, and some are other stupid sizes... all I want is 2x2 tiles that match the theme of my phone. What's the point in getting a really nice theme and then ruining it with AccuWeather's horrible widget and a calendar that looks like an HTML iframe?