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The penalty for automakers should be based on the law as it was written. They need no exemptions based on the scale of their crimes. If they broke the law and k

The penalty for automakers should be based on the law as it was written. They need no exemptions based on the scale of their crimes. If they broke the law and knew about it, then someone has to go to jail. That's how the law works, and the only thing that will prevent another 25 years of false governance.

TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
Law is a little more nuanced than 'commit crime -> go directly to jail', which I'd argue is a good thing.
yuzi 10y ago
> If they broke the law and knew about it, then someone has to go to jail. What planet do you live on?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
toomuchtodo 10y ago
I agree decision makers should still go to jail, but we're not going to suddenly dissolve automakers who employee hundreds of thousands of people (witness the US government stepping in to save GM). If you can't build petrol cars that meet emissions standards, you must build electric vehicles.
- uremog 10y ago
  It's ok for them to just not make cars if they can't make them right.
  - CapitalistCartr 10y ago
    OK for whom? The US gov't clearly does not think its OK. I doubt the employees think its OK. I don't think its OK. We need cars now. In the present. Not in a decade or two when the major ones manage to make affordable electric ones and when our electric grid can handle that.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      Battery technology is already five years ahead of predictions. If Tesla can make a $35K electric vehicle that 400k people are waiting 2 years for, why can't major automakers? Also, the current electrical grid (at least in the US) can easily support 100% of light vehicles if they all transitioned to electric vehicles. The DOE did a study on this about 6 years ago. Need more power? Build more solar and wind, and use electric cars to soak it up.
      - CapitalistCartr 10y ago
        The major automakers can of course make 100K luxury automobiles, electric or not. They don't replace the 17 million normally-priced cars the rest of us buy each year. Studies and predictions are nice, but to build it and make it work takes decades. We have a massive infrastructure in the country. And of course, it won't work the way we planned. Everything changes and pivots, not just SV startups.
        toomuchtodo 10y ago
        > Studies and predictions are nice, but to build it and make it work takes decades. We have a massive infrastructure in the country. And of course, it won't work the way we planned. Everything changes and pivots, not just SV startups. No, no it does not. Existing overnight electrical generation can satisfy replacing every internal combustion vehicle with an electrical vehicle, today, in the United States. Any statements contrary are outright lies.
        JoBrad 10y ago
        There are a lot of warning signs regarding he current US infrastructure, several people have talked about the inability of our current infrastructure to efficiently manage most/all cars suddenly usig the electric grid. But the bigger problem is that you simply can't take a long trip on battery only, without significant delay. I take a twice-yearly trip that takes about 10 hours in a car, with two small kids. That would be hell in an electric car.
- imgabe 10y ago
  Do you think that's not also going to involve laying off thousands of employees as they retool factories to build cars for which there is little demand?
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Can you show me this lack of demand? Because 400K people are waiting 2-3 years for a Tesla they've never even sat in before.
    - imgabe 10y ago
      17.5 million cars were sold in the US last year. GM, for example sold nearly 200k cars in March. Just March. If they went from that to selling 400k cars every 2-3 years, that would be a horrendously precipitous decline in sales with massive layoffs. Not to mention retooling factories. They can't just spin around on a dime and start making electric cars instead of gas ones. Oh, and where's the charging infrastructure for everyone to drive an electric car? The Tesla stations are great, but they still take 30 minutes or so to fully charge a car. Go look at the throughput at a busy gas station and imagine every one of those people waiting 30 minutes. They'd basically never get to leave the gas station.
      - sievebrain 10y ago
        Yes, but you can't integrate gas stations with ordinary infrastructure like private garages and car parks. You can put charging points there though.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        You're going to see a drop in auto sales regardless with autopilot and ridesharing services reducing the need to own a car. Note GM investing in Lyfy (smart; they see the writing on the wall). Auto jobs are going away, but that's an argument for basic income for another day. Retooling factories can be done quickly. It only took Tesla ~10-14 days of downtime to retool from Model S-only production to Model S and Model X. Electric vehicles are so so much easier to produce than an internal combustion vehicle, as its only a battery and electric motor for a drivetrain. Charging infrastructure? Every home with at least 100amp/220V service is a charging station. Not to mention every Tesla destination and Supercharger station.
__jal 10y ago
I wish we lived in a world where those responsible for large crimes went to jail. > That's how the law works I think you meant that's the fairy tale "we" tell the little people.
- andrepd 10y ago
  It's true though. Being a cynic is all very well and perhaps even realistic, but it doesn't change the fact that the law ought to be applied.
dnautics 10y ago
"If they broke the law and knew about it, then someone has to go to jail. That's how the law works..." Hopefully the next time you break the law by willingly jaywalking there will be a cop around to take you to gaol.

TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago

Law is a little more nuanced than 'commit crime -> go directly to jail', which I'd argue is a good thing.

yuzi 10y ago

> If they broke the law and knew about it, then someone has to go to jail. What planet do you live on?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

toomuchtodo 10y ago

I agree decision makers should still go to jail, but we're not going to suddenly dissolve automakers who employee hundreds of thousands of people (witness the US government stepping in to save GM). If you can't build petrol cars that meet emissions standards, you must build electric vehicles.

uremog 10y ago
It's ok for them to just not make cars if they can't make them right.
- CapitalistCartr 10y ago
  OK for whom? The US gov't clearly does not think its OK. I doubt the employees think its OK. I don't think its OK. We need cars now. In the present. Not in a decade or two when the major ones manage to make affordable electric ones and when our electric grid can handle that.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Battery technology is already five years ahead of predictions. If Tesla can make a $35K electric vehicle that 400k people are waiting 2 years for, why can't major automakers? Also, the current electrical grid (at least in the US) can easily support 100% of light vehicles if they all transitioned to electric vehicles. The DOE did a study on this about 6 years ago. Need more power? Build more solar and wind, and use electric cars to soak it up.
    - CapitalistCartr 10y ago
      The major automakers can of course make 100K luxury automobiles, electric or not. They don't replace the 17 million normally-priced cars the rest of us buy each year. Studies and predictions are nice, but to build it and make it work takes decades. We have a massive infrastructure in the country. And of course, it won't work the way we planned. Everything changes and pivots, not just SV startups.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        > Studies and predictions are nice, but to build it and make it work takes decades. We have a massive infrastructure in the country. And of course, it won't work the way we planned. Everything changes and pivots, not just SV startups. No, no it does not. Existing overnight electrical generation can satisfy replacing every internal combustion vehicle with an electrical vehicle, today, in the United States. Any statements contrary are outright lies.
        JoBrad 10y ago
        There are a lot of warning signs regarding he current US infrastructure, several people have talked about the inability of our current infrastructure to efficiently manage most/all cars suddenly usig the electric grid. But the bigger problem is that you simply can't take a long trip on battery only, without significant delay. I take a twice-yearly trip that takes about 10 hours in a car, with two small kids. That would be hell in an electric car.
imgabe 10y ago
Do you think that's not also going to involve laying off thousands of employees as they retool factories to build cars for which there is little demand?
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Can you show me this lack of demand? Because 400K people are waiting 2-3 years for a Tesla they've never even sat in before.
  - imgabe 10y ago
    17.5 million cars were sold in the US last year. GM, for example sold nearly 200k cars in March. Just March. If they went from that to selling 400k cars every 2-3 years, that would be a horrendously precipitous decline in sales with massive layoffs. Not to mention retooling factories. They can't just spin around on a dime and start making electric cars instead of gas ones. Oh, and where's the charging infrastructure for everyone to drive an electric car? The Tesla stations are great, but they still take 30 minutes or so to fully charge a car. Go look at the throughput at a busy gas station and imagine every one of those people waiting 30 minutes. They'd basically never get to leave the gas station.
    - sievebrain 10y ago
      Yes, but you can't integrate gas stations with ordinary infrastructure like private garages and car parks. You can put charging points there though.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      You're going to see a drop in auto sales regardless with autopilot and ridesharing services reducing the need to own a car. Note GM investing in Lyfy (smart; they see the writing on the wall). Auto jobs are going away, but that's an argument for basic income for another day. Retooling factories can be done quickly. It only took Tesla ~10-14 days of downtime to retool from Model S-only production to Model S and Model X. Electric vehicles are so so much easier to produce than an internal combustion vehicle, as its only a battery and electric motor for a drivetrain. Charging infrastructure? Every home with at least 100amp/220V service is a charging station. Not to mention every Tesla destination and Supercharger station.

__jal 10y ago

I wish we lived in a world where those responsible for large crimes went to jail. > That's how the law works I think you meant that's the fairy tale "we" tell the little people.

andrepd 10y ago
It's true though. Being a cynic is all very well and perhaps even realistic, but it doesn't change the fact that the law ought to be applied.

dnautics 10y ago

"If they broke the law and knew about it, then someone has to go to jail. That's how the law works..." Hopefully the next time you break the law by willingly jaywalking there will be a cop around to take you to gaol.