4 ms·

> I don't even like being around zero-sum people. So, you don't like being around people with limited resources?

gumby 10y ago
Not sure if that's a joke on what I said or if I was unclear so in case it was the latter: I mean people with the zero sum mentality. I grew up with pretty limited resources (some weeks not much to eat at the end of the week) with two war-survivor parents with a pretty careful/cautious view of budget and resources so I certainly am comfortable around people who don't have a lot or don't have a lot of status. I just don't enjoy people who think that winning is the point, and that in order to win another must lose.
- betenoire 10y ago
  building off that, I find myself drawn to sports/activities/challenges where I compete against myself, primarily. Rock climbing, music, programming, etc. It seems related to me, that I enjoy the things where the only person holding me back is myself. I've never been good at team sports, or even been able to enjoy them as much. I don't know if it's the zero-sum nature of the game (a winner and loser, and rankings), or if it's the teamwork I just avoid.
  - gumby 10y ago
    That's the essence of jihad, despite what those death cult nutjobs say. I'm not a muslim but I found that word really useful...until about 15 years ago :-(. Need a better word acceptable to anglos in the west.
    - betenoire 10y ago
      Interesting, I didn't know that. As you suggest, the word has way too much connotation to be useful in that sense anymore.
aaroninsf 10y ago
Srsly. Almost every aspect of the world, cultural constructs and the physical realities that underpin them, for the foreseeable future, are going to remain, in effect, zero sum. Right here on Hackernews the top story yesterday was the dead end Japan has reached by virtue of clinging to the fiction of permanent growth. Worse, in domains in which there has been genuine growth of some kind (e.g. increased returns as a result of higher efficiencies), the story since 1970 has been: _zero sum for everyone but the top few percent, who have seized all gains for themselves_. "Zero-sum people" are being minted by the millions by our current economy. When you hoard the upside at historically unprecedented levels, what you get is resentment and an accurate perception that you have been left to fight for scraps.
- taurath 10y ago
  I wish someone smarter than I could come up with actionable ways to actually change this status quo, so that people could latch onto. It feels like politics is one of the few levers that exist that people can pull, but its so entrenched anyone who looks at it long enough becomes hopeless. Those who work and fight within the system for decades at the end of it seek to protect what they perceive they worked for. Even if you changed the incentives on a local (country) level, those with power are pushing for more globalization and providing havens for anyone already with wealth. Its always been this way, but its now at a larger scale, and I feel that most people wish they had something to do to make change happen.
trentmb 10y ago
It's a mentality for some people- it's not enough to win, someone has to lose for them to be satisfied.

gumby 10y ago

Not sure if that's a joke on what I said or if I was unclear so in case it was the latter: I mean people with the zero sum mentality. I grew up with pretty limited resources (some weeks not much to eat at the end of the week) with two war-survivor parents with a pretty careful/cautious view of budget and resources so I certainly am comfortable around people who don't have a lot or don't have a lot of status. I just don't enjoy people who think that winning is the point, and that in order to win another must lose.

betenoire 10y ago
building off that, I find myself drawn to sports/activities/challenges where I compete against myself, primarily. Rock climbing, music, programming, etc. It seems related to me, that I enjoy the things where the only person holding me back is myself. I've never been good at team sports, or even been able to enjoy them as much. I don't know if it's the zero-sum nature of the game (a winner and loser, and rankings), or if it's the teamwork I just avoid.
- gumby 10y ago
  That's the essence of jihad, despite what those death cult nutjobs say. I'm not a muslim but I found that word really useful...until about 15 years ago :-(. Need a better word acceptable to anglos in the west.
  - betenoire 10y ago
    Interesting, I didn't know that. As you suggest, the word has way too much connotation to be useful in that sense anymore.

aaroninsf 10y ago

Srsly. Almost every aspect of the world, cultural constructs and the physical realities that underpin them, for the foreseeable future, are going to remain, in effect, zero sum. Right here on Hackernews the top story yesterday was the dead end Japan has reached by virtue of clinging to the fiction of permanent growth. Worse, in domains in which there has been genuine growth of some kind (e.g. increased returns as a result of higher efficiencies), the story since 1970 has been: _zero sum for everyone but the top few percent, who have seized all gains for themselves_. "Zero-sum people" are being minted by the millions by our current economy. When you hoard the upside at historically unprecedented levels, what you get is resentment and an accurate perception that you have been left to fight for scraps.

taurath 10y ago
I wish someone smarter than I could come up with actionable ways to actually change this status quo, so that people could latch onto. It feels like politics is one of the few levers that exist that people can pull, but its so entrenched anyone who looks at it long enough becomes hopeless. Those who work and fight within the system for decades at the end of it seek to protect what they perceive they worked for. Even if you changed the incentives on a local (country) level, those with power are pushing for more globalization and providing havens for anyone already with wealth. Its always been this way, but its now at a larger scale, and I feel that most people wish they had something to do to make change happen.

trentmb 10y ago

It's a mentality for some people- it's not enough to win, someone has to lose for them to be satisfied.