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Let's look at the stats. Apple's diversity report [1] states their tech employees are composed of 79% male, 22% female. Facebook's diversity report [2] shows

Let's look at the stats. Apple's diversity report [1] states their tech employees are composed of 79% male, 22% female. Facebook's diversity report [2] shows 85% males in tech vs 15% female. Google's is pretty much the same, and you can compare them all with interactive graphs [3]. Note the dominance of white and male in the graphs. The programs you mention for women are great, I agree. These are the steps we need to take if we want women who are interested in technology to come forward join our field. But women are not more easily hired. If that were the case then it would be reflected in, you know, reality. [1] http://www.apple.com/diversity/ http://www.apple.com/diversity/ [2] http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/25/facebook-diversity/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/25/facebook-diversity/ [3] http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/20/9179853/tech-diversity-scorecard-apple-google-microsoft-facebook-intel-twitter-amazon http://www.theverge.com/2015/8/20/9179853/tech-diversity-sco...

j4kp07 10y ago
LMAO....you literally just said prior to this comment: "We are not trying to ensure there is an "arbitrary number" of certain types of people working in our field." You are a walking Poster Child for hypocrisy.
- interpol_p 10y ago
  How does sharing such stats imply achieving "arbitrary numbers" in any sense? I am pointing at data showing a large disparity in tech employment relative to the population. Women are equally as capable as men when it comes to tech, so we should expect equal representation. We don't get equal representation because of existing cultural biases against women in this field. It's the same reason we don't get equal representation of men in many "women's" fields where men are clearly as capable as women.
  - gremy0 10y ago
    > so we should expect equal representation This is conjecture. > We don't get equal representation because of existing cultural biases against women in this field. As is this. You are pointing to data and making your own conclusions that the data simply isn't complete enough to show.
  - j4kp07 10y ago
    > How does sharing such stats imply achieving "arbitrary numbers" in any sense? Are you really that ignorant? > Women are equally as capable as men when it comes to tech, so we should expect equal representation. And why are there not more women collecting trash or sweeping our streets (90% male)? And why are there not more men teaching our children in K-12 (80% female)? Obviously men are just as capable and just as smart.
gremy0 10y ago
Those numbers can still mean it's easier for a women to get hired in the industry. They can make the entry level for women lower and get those numbers simply due to the lack of women applying in the first place. That would mean it would be easier for a qualified women in the industry to get a job than a man of equal qualification. Which is ManlyBread was saying. Reality tends to change when you, you know, actually understand logic and statistics.
- interpol_p 10y ago
  True. It may mean that, but there is zero evidence to back up ManlyBread's claim aside from his anecdotal evidence.
  - gremy0 10y ago
    And what. There is zero evidence to back up your interruption of the 'stats'. In fact your stats are completely useless in coming to any conclusion apart from purely saying there are less women in those jobs.
jazzyk 10y ago
About 18% of computer science graduates are women [1], so Apple (22% female) discriminates against men and Facebook (15%) discriminates against women. Yes, the above is partly tongue-in-cheek (I realize that not all employees are programmers). I am just trying to make a point that companies hire from a pool of qualified candidates (with college degree usually being the "qualified" selector). So if the pool consists of 18% women, companies will likely not have more than 18% women as programmers. As to why 18% of computer science graduates are women is a completely separate discussion from the topic at hand. [1] http://fortune.com/2015/04/20/the-pervasive-bias-against-female-computer-science-majors/ http://fortune.com/2015/04/20/the-pervasive-bias-against-fem...
- interpol_p 10y ago
  Yeah I get that, that's all part of the issue — not enough women in tech education leads to less being employed.
BurningFrog 10y ago
> Note the dominance of white and male in the graphs. Not if you actually look at the graphs. Just taking the Apple data at random, the US numbers are 54% white, 18% asian, 11% hispanic, 8% black, etc. The 2010 US census numbers are: 64% white, 5% asian, 16% hispanic, 12% black. So whites are actually underrepresented, while there are 3.6x as many asians.
- interpol_p 10y ago
  We are looking specifically at "tech." That's not "at random."
  - BurningFrog 10y ago
    What I mean is I randomly looked at one of your three links. It directly contradicts your claim about the data.

j4kp07 10y ago

LMAO....you literally just said prior to this comment: "We are not trying to ensure there is an "arbitrary number" of certain types of people working in our field." You are a walking Poster Child for hypocrisy.

interpol_p 10y ago
How does sharing such stats imply achieving "arbitrary numbers" in any sense? I am pointing at data showing a large disparity in tech employment relative to the population. Women are equally as capable as men when it comes to tech, so we should expect equal representation. We don't get equal representation because of existing cultural biases against women in this field. It's the same reason we don't get equal representation of men in many "women's" fields where men are clearly as capable as women.
- gremy0 10y ago
  > so we should expect equal representation This is conjecture. > We don't get equal representation because of existing cultural biases against women in this field. As is this. You are pointing to data and making your own conclusions that the data simply isn't complete enough to show.
- j4kp07 10y ago
  > How does sharing such stats imply achieving "arbitrary numbers" in any sense? Are you really that ignorant? > Women are equally as capable as men when it comes to tech, so we should expect equal representation. And why are there not more women collecting trash or sweeping our streets (90% male)? And why are there not more men teaching our children in K-12 (80% female)? Obviously men are just as capable and just as smart.

gremy0 10y ago

Those numbers can still mean it's easier for a women to get hired in the industry. They can make the entry level for women lower and get those numbers simply due to the lack of women applying in the first place. That would mean it would be easier for a qualified women in the industry to get a job than a man of equal qualification. Which is ManlyBread was saying. Reality tends to change when you, you know, actually understand logic and statistics.

interpol_p 10y ago
True. It may mean that, but there is zero evidence to back up ManlyBread's claim aside from his anecdotal evidence.
- gremy0 10y ago
  And what. There is zero evidence to back up your interruption of the 'stats'. In fact your stats are completely useless in coming to any conclusion apart from purely saying there are less women in those jobs.

jazzyk 10y ago

About 18% of computer science graduates are women [1], so Apple (22% female) discriminates against men and Facebook (15%) discriminates against women. Yes, the above is partly tongue-in-cheek (I realize that not all employees are programmers). I am just trying to make a point that companies hire from a pool of qualified candidates (with college degree usually being the "qualified" selector). So if the pool consists of 18% women, companies will likely not have more than 18% women as programmers. As to why 18% of computer science graduates are women is a completely separate discussion from the topic at hand. [1] http://fortune.com/2015/04/20/the-pervasive-bias-against-female-computer-science-majors/ http://fortune.com/2015/04/20/the-pervasive-bias-against-fem...

interpol_p 10y ago
Yeah I get that, that's all part of the issue — not enough women in tech education leads to less being employed.

BurningFrog 10y ago

> Note the dominance of white and male in the graphs. Not if you actually look at the graphs. Just taking the Apple data at random, the US numbers are 54% white, 18% asian, 11% hispanic, 8% black, etc. The 2010 US census numbers are: 64% white, 5% asian, 16% hispanic, 12% black. So whites are actually underrepresented, while there are 3.6x as many asians.

interpol_p 10y ago
We are looking specifically at "tech." That's not "at random."
- BurningFrog 10y ago
  What I mean is I randomly looked at one of your three links. It directly contradicts your claim about the data.