5 ms·

>> I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich >Then the comment does not apply to you. It does, I'm white. The author specifically mentions "whit

>> I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich >Then the comment does not apply to you. It does, I'm white. The author specifically mentions "white male".

wmccullough 10y ago
But it doesn't. He may not have specified "from North America", but that's what he meant.
- stray 10y ago
  He's not from North America, is he? So why do you think that's what he meant?
danbruc 10y ago
In the context it was not meant literally as people who are white and male in the same way that blue collar worker does not refer to all workers wearing blue shirts.
- shrewduser 10y ago
  then "white male" has no meaning, unless you mean "white male and privileged" in which case it's redundant and racist to have the "white male" part
  - delinka 10y ago
    Did you actually mean 'redundant'? If so, you first said 'white male' has no meaning. For it to be redundant in the 'white male and privileged' then it must also mean 'privileged.' I certainly agree on the racist point.
    - cicero 10y ago
      He said, unless you mean...privileged. In THAT case, it's redundant.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- hnthrow165038 10y ago
  The problem is that lots of people don't get that nuance, and then carry the thought along thinking it really does literally mean people who are white and male. Memes morph as they're passed along, and a complex sociological understanding of abstract "whiteness" has no chance of surviving into the popular understanding. So for each person like you who means "white male in the abstract sense", there are ten people in the movement who literally hate white males for running the world. When we want to talk about privilege we should say just that: "privileged people". Don't shit on arbitrary subsections of the population.
  - geon 10y ago
    Really, just use words that describe the concept. "White male" has a very specific inherent meaning. Don't use it to describe something completely different, like racism or sexism.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    lots of people don't get that nuance, because that nuance doesn't generally exist and was just made up now to win the argument. "white male in the abstract sense" ffs!
    - hnthrow165038 10y ago
      Oh, definitely. I don't believe in the religion myself. I have heard that cop-out before though: "but we're only talking about the successful white males". I think the term for the argument technique / fallacy is motte-and-bailey (you might be aware but for the benefit of anyone reading): http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-brick-in-the-motte/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-bric...
      - Chris2048 10y ago
        upboat for a brilliant article there!
bgilroy26 10y ago
Race in the United States has a very particular history I know minstrel shows made it to England, but I don't think they ever made it to the Adriatic Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show?wprov=sfla1

>> I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich >Then the comment does not apply to you. It does, I'm white. The author specifically mentions "white male".

wmccullough 10y ago

But it doesn't. He may not have specified "from North America", but that's what he meant.

stray 10y ago
He's not from North America, is he? So why do you think that's what he meant?

danbruc 10y ago

In the context it was not meant literally as people who are white and male in the same way that blue collar worker does not refer to all workers wearing blue shirts.

shrewduser 10y ago
then "white male" has no meaning, unless you mean "white male and privileged" in which case it's redundant and racist to have the "white male" part
- delinka 10y ago
  Did you actually mean 'redundant'? If so, you first said 'white male' has no meaning. For it to be redundant in the 'white male and privileged' then it must also mean 'privileged.' I certainly agree on the racist point.
  - cicero 10y ago
    He said, unless you mean...privileged. In THAT case, it's redundant.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
hnthrow165038 10y ago
The problem is that lots of people don't get that nuance, and then carry the thought along thinking it really does literally mean people who are white and male. Memes morph as they're passed along, and a complex sociological understanding of abstract "whiteness" has no chance of surviving into the popular understanding. So for each person like you who means "white male in the abstract sense", there are ten people in the movement who literally hate white males for running the world. When we want to talk about privilege we should say just that: "privileged people". Don't shit on arbitrary subsections of the population.
- geon 10y ago
  Really, just use words that describe the concept. "White male" has a very specific inherent meaning. Don't use it to describe something completely different, like racism or sexism.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  lots of people don't get that nuance, because that nuance doesn't generally exist and was just made up now to win the argument. "white male in the abstract sense" ffs!
  - hnthrow165038 10y ago
    Oh, definitely. I don't believe in the religion myself. I have heard that cop-out before though: "but we're only talking about the successful white males". I think the term for the argument technique / fallacy is motte-and-bailey (you might be aware but for the benefit of anyone reading): http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-brick-in-the-motte/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/03/all-in-all-another-bric...
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      upboat for a brilliant article there!

bgilroy26 10y ago

Race in the United States has a very particular history I know minstrel shows made it to England, but I don't think they ever made it to the Adriatic Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show?wprov=sfla1