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Social/political issues are not orthogonal to technical issues -- in fact, the belief that they are orthogonal is fundamentally conservative (protective of the

by zorpner 10y ago

Social/political issues are not orthogonal to technical issues -- in fact, the belief that they are orthogonal is fundamentally conservative (protective of the status quo).

zyx321 10y ago
You do have a point. It's conservative in the sense that it has been this way for a long time and that it's been working out well enough. Why do we need to change it? And no, rehashing the old ">2011" meme for the millionth time is not a valid argument.
- cauterized 10y ago
  Working out well enough for whom?
  - zyx321 10y ago
    I would like to posit a variation of the anthropic principle: We are currently alive to have this discussion, therefore the things we've done to get here are not the worst we could have done. I recognize that's not the strongest argument, but it sure as heck beats the stupid "it's 2016, therefore you are on the wrong side of history" meme that people seem so fond of throwing around. To answer your question: Working out well enough for you, me, and everyone here. So can we please stop trying to force the latest political fad into everything ever?
    - cauterized 10y ago
      It's been working out well enough that we're alive? That's a pretty low standard for whether we should discuss the intersection of social/political issues and the tech industry. Surely in that case, we shouldn't be discussing any regulations or taxation of the tech industry either?
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - zyx321 10y ago
        That was more intended as a defense of conservatism in general, since the post I was replying to gave the impression that "conservative" was synonymous with "wrong, evil or stupid" - maybe I'm reading too much into it. Still, humor me. Can you tell me why we should be wasting time with the ever more outlandish demands of the politically correct language police? Can you tell me why we should replace merit-based hiring with some variation of the progressive stack? Can you tell me why we should be expelling people from conferences and open source projects over things they say on their private twitter accounts? Because when I see someone advocating for "intersectionality" those are the kinds of suggestions they seem to come up with.
mikekchar 10y ago
As in, if I'm not part of the solution I'm part of the problem? ;-) I can understand that this is an important issue. I can understand the desire to discuss it and to do so in front of specific segments of the population for which the issue is important (in this case technology workers). I would argue, though, that this particular issue clearly is orthogonal to technical issues in that it is something that is important and relevant to all humans in all walks of life. That's what orthogonality is. I think that's precisely why people want to discuss these kinds of things in terms of technology/hacker culture. However, as important as this issue is, there are other issues that are just as important to every human in the world. And just like this issue, they are orthogonal to technology. They are just as important to discuss in front of an audience like HN as they are anywhere else. As such, there are people who are very determined to get access to this audience. It is easy to reason that these are important issues that nobody should ignore. It is easy to reason that we should make sure to provide a stage and put it front and centre. But my life is full of people screaming to get my attention to important issues. I spend quite a lot of my time and energy dealing with them. Sometimes I don't want to do that. Sometimes I want to find out about trivial things like what new crazy javascript framework I'm going to be cursing about tomorrow. Or why I should pay attention to some unicorn startup (who will almost certainly be gone in a few years despite all the hype). Sometimes I don't want important. That's why I come here. I assume there are others who feel the same way, but I could easily be wrong.

by zorpner 10y ago

Social/political issues are not orthogonal to technical issues -- in fact, the belief that they are orthogonal is fundamentally conservative (protective of the status quo).

zyx321 10y ago

You do have a point. It's conservative in the sense that it has been this way for a long time and that it's been working out well enough. Why do we need to change it? And no, rehashing the old ">2011" meme for the millionth time is not a valid argument.

cauterized 10y ago
Working out well enough for whom?
- zyx321 10y ago
  I would like to posit a variation of the anthropic principle: We are currently alive to have this discussion, therefore the things we've done to get here are not the worst we could have done. I recognize that's not the strongest argument, but it sure as heck beats the stupid "it's 2016, therefore you are on the wrong side of history" meme that people seem so fond of throwing around. To answer your question: Working out well enough for you, me, and everyone here. So can we please stop trying to force the latest political fad into everything ever?
  - cauterized 10y ago
    It's been working out well enough that we're alive? That's a pretty low standard for whether we should discuss the intersection of social/political issues and the tech industry. Surely in that case, we shouldn't be discussing any regulations or taxation of the tech industry either?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - zyx321 10y ago
      That was more intended as a defense of conservatism in general, since the post I was replying to gave the impression that "conservative" was synonymous with "wrong, evil or stupid" - maybe I'm reading too much into it. Still, humor me. Can you tell me why we should be wasting time with the ever more outlandish demands of the politically correct language police? Can you tell me why we should replace merit-based hiring with some variation of the progressive stack? Can you tell me why we should be expelling people from conferences and open source projects over things they say on their private twitter accounts? Because when I see someone advocating for "intersectionality" those are the kinds of suggestions they seem to come up with.

mikekchar 10y ago

As in, if I'm not part of the solution I'm part of the problem? ;-) I can understand that this is an important issue. I can understand the desire to discuss it and to do so in front of specific segments of the population for which the issue is important (in this case technology workers). I would argue, though, that this particular issue clearly is orthogonal to technical issues in that it is something that is important and relevant to all humans in all walks of life. That's what orthogonality is. I think that's precisely why people want to discuss these kinds of things in terms of technology/hacker culture. However, as important as this issue is, there are other issues that are just as important to every human in the world. And just like this issue, they are orthogonal to technology. They are just as important to discuss in front of an audience like HN as they are anywhere else. As such, there are people who are very determined to get access to this audience. It is easy to reason that these are important issues that nobody should ignore. It is easy to reason that we should make sure to provide a stage and put it front and centre. But my life is full of people screaming to get my attention to important issues. I spend quite a lot of my time and energy dealing with them. Sometimes I don't want to do that. Sometimes I want to find out about trivial things like what new crazy javascript framework I'm going to be cursing about tomorrow. Or why I should pay attention to some unicorn startup (who will almost certainly be gone in a few years despite all the hype). Sometimes I don't want important. That's why I come here. I assume there are others who feel the same way, but I could easily be wrong.