5 ms·

This is an amazing idea. Kudos to the Stripe team for putting it into action! Personally I can feel this "flow", and I have some favorite pair programming frie

by ff_ 10y ago

This is an amazing idea. Kudos to the Stripe team for putting it into action! Personally I can feel this "flow", and I have some favorite pair programming friends; it's hard to beat the feeling of having someone else that completes your sentences or writes down in code the idea that you were thinking out after just saying a couple of words or exchanging a single glance. The probability of this happening on a new workplace with people that you don't know doesn't seem so high to me, so this idea really makes sense. Has any other company thought of this before?

ChicagoBoy11 10y ago
I remember reading a blog post about a year ago where this guy talked about going through a similar process of "applying as a team" at a different company - just commenting now so if someone who also read it (but unlike me actually remembers who it was) can post it here. This is definitely not the first time I've seen this concept on HN, though
- ChicagoBoy11 10y ago
  clay_to_n posted the one article I read!
clay_to_n 10y ago
I'm sure there are older precedents, but the first thing I read about this concept was from this article from 2015, in which a team applied together to various companies: http://chocolatetin.org/2015/09/30/team-job-hunt.html http://chocolatetin.org/2015/09/30/team-job-hunt.html HN discussion about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10390834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10390834
eadz 10y ago
There is a startup that specialises in recruiting teams rather than individuals. https://goelevator.com/ https://goelevator.com/ I can't see many downsides - except for the poor companies that have whole teams disappear on them.
- bpchaps 10y ago
  Isn't that, uh.. a pretty big downside?
  - shimon 10y ago
    For those specific companies that lose good teams, yes. But you could certainly argue that anything that moves workers into better jobs more efficiently is improving the allocation of resources in the economy, so it's a net upside.
    - bpchaps 10y ago
      Yes, but people are dickholes who take advantage of these setups. I was part of one of those setups, but only realized what was going on after I joined. There's absolutely a middle ground, but I'm not sure that direct hire of teams is not of them - yet. For that to work, many other things would need to happen first. I'm looking forward to the day that happens. For now, I'll stick with freelancing and hope others hop on this bandwagon with me.
  - justinjlynn 10y ago
    Possibly. However, I would counter that if you have a whole team leave you then, as a first step, you should look at yourself as to why. On the other hand, any company should be prepared for that kind of departure -- which I know is difficult. If it helps, let's remove the human element and think about it from a disaster recovery perspective. You need a replacement plan for the whole group. It's vital if you want to do things like take your team out to lunch (food poisoning) or to any group activity (transport accident) or be in a single office (anything that takes out the building will take out your team). Could you rebuild your product team from scratch and still proceed with the deliverables that have actually been checked into source control and the issues that have been entered into the issue tracker? It's a good question to ask.
    - bpchaps 10y ago
      Unfortunately the people element is too big to remove from this equation and should be included in your risk model. Another thing to consider is that people are just generally assholes and will take advantage of a system like this. Like I said in a previous comment, I was part of a small group that joined a company, and the outcome was awful for everybody included. Disaster isn't really relevant here, everything started to fall apart, people quit included me, morale was awful, etc. When I joined, all I wanted was to have an interesting job, but they wanted an "alliance" with me. It was fucked in the most Machiavelian, spoiled brat way. I can't imagine that won't happen elsewhere. Anecdata, n=1, blah blah. Incidentally, their DR test at one point wasn't really a valid DR test, since it didn't do of any sort of rigor. Not to mention the other DR tests/events I've seen at other companies ;).
JabavuAdams 10y ago
Why wouldn't you try to work together with these collaborators and then get acqui-hired. Would probably be a better deal. It's innovative, for sure, but I don't see this as being in the applicants' favour. EDIT> Actually ... there is a benefit over acqui-hiring. If your teammates are unable or unwilling to forgo salaried employment, this could be a win. Could definitely bring in more experienced people who have families / mortgages, etc.

by ff_ 10y ago

ChicagoBoy11 10y ago

I remember reading a blog post about a year ago where this guy talked about going through a similar process of "applying as a team" at a different company - just commenting now so if someone who also read it (but unlike me actually remembers who it was) can post it here. This is definitely not the first time I've seen this concept on HN, though

ChicagoBoy11 10y ago
clay_to_n posted the one article I read!

clay_to_n 10y ago

I'm sure there are older precedents, but the first thing I read about this concept was from this article from 2015, in which a team applied together to various companies: http://chocolatetin.org/2015/09/30/team-job-hunt.html http://chocolatetin.org/2015/09/30/team-job-hunt.html HN discussion about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10390834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10390834

eadz 10y ago

There is a startup that specialises in recruiting teams rather than individuals. https://goelevator.com/ https://goelevator.com/ I can't see many downsides - except for the poor companies that have whole teams disappear on them.

bpchaps 10y ago
Isn't that, uh.. a pretty big downside?
- shimon 10y ago
  For those specific companies that lose good teams, yes. But you could certainly argue that anything that moves workers into better jobs more efficiently is improving the allocation of resources in the economy, so it's a net upside.
  - bpchaps 10y ago
    Yes, but people are dickholes who take advantage of these setups. I was part of one of those setups, but only realized what was going on after I joined. There's absolutely a middle ground, but I'm not sure that direct hire of teams is not of them - yet. For that to work, many other things would need to happen first. I'm looking forward to the day that happens. For now, I'll stick with freelancing and hope others hop on this bandwagon with me.
- justinjlynn 10y ago
  Possibly. However, I would counter that if you have a whole team leave you then, as a first step, you should look at yourself as to why. On the other hand, any company should be prepared for that kind of departure -- which I know is difficult. If it helps, let's remove the human element and think about it from a disaster recovery perspective. You need a replacement plan for the whole group. It's vital if you want to do things like take your team out to lunch (food poisoning) or to any group activity (transport accident) or be in a single office (anything that takes out the building will take out your team). Could you rebuild your product team from scratch and still proceed with the deliverables that have actually been checked into source control and the issues that have been entered into the issue tracker? It's a good question to ask.
  - bpchaps 10y ago
    Unfortunately the people element is too big to remove from this equation and should be included in your risk model. Another thing to consider is that people are just generally assholes and will take advantage of a system like this. Like I said in a previous comment, I was part of a small group that joined a company, and the outcome was awful for everybody included. Disaster isn't really relevant here, everything started to fall apart, people quit included me, morale was awful, etc. When I joined, all I wanted was to have an interesting job, but they wanted an "alliance" with me. It was fucked in the most Machiavelian, spoiled brat way. I can't imagine that won't happen elsewhere. Anecdata, n=1, blah blah. Incidentally, their DR test at one point wasn't really a valid DR test, since it didn't do of any sort of rigor. Not to mention the other DR tests/events I've seen at other companies ;).

JabavuAdams 10y ago

Why wouldn't you try to work together with these collaborators and then get acqui-hired. Would probably be a better deal. It's innovative, for sure, but I don't see this as being in the applicants' favour. EDIT> Actually ... there is a benefit over acqui-hiring. If your teammates are unable or unwilling to forgo salaried employment, this could be a win. Could definitely bring in more experienced people who have families / mortgages, etc.