7 ms·

Would be somehow more ethical if they set up their own piwik instance to collect the same data?

fabulist 11y ago
Collecting telemetry is reasonably, but it seems inappropriate for Google to get a copy and to be able to identify which of their users installed a particular piece of software from the IP address. So yes. Running their own server would be much preferable.
- estel 11y ago
  For Homebrew: > The Google Analytics anonymous IP setting is enabled i.e. 1 (https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/collection/protocol/v1/parameters#aip https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/collection...)
  - dogecoinbase 11y ago
    It's worth noting that AIP's functionality requires you to trust Google -- the data is received by them, but their design specifies that they mask it before it's processed or stored.
    - creshal 11y ago
      Or so they claim.
  - fabulist 11y ago
    While I feel we should all treat Google with skepticism here, I didn't realize they (and so failed to acknowledge) that Homebrew was attempting to remedy that, so I apologize for speaking out of turn.
iagooar 11y ago
I think it would be, yes. At least, it would not get into the hands of an external 3rd party (that as we know, lives from selling / using data they gather from people).
- TheLogothete 11y ago
  Google does not use GA data unless the webmaster chooses to share it with them. I'm not sure if they use it to improve their ad products, but I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is no.
  - TheLogothete 11y ago
    ARGH! I HATE TEH GOOGLE AND TEH MARKETERS AND I WILL DOWNVOTE YOU BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE ANALYTICS. IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT YOU ARE RIGHT.
  - joepie91_ 11y ago
    Firstly, this is a decision that should be up to the user, not the webmaster. Secondly, do you have a source for that? I find that a very dubious claim, from a business perspective.
    - TheLogothete 11y ago
      Everyone who has signed up for GA knows it. When you sign up you are asked 2 questions: Do you want to share data with google to imrpove our products? Do you want to pool your data for benchmarking purposes? Both are unchecked by default. But here you go, I will search for "google analytics data sharing" for you. https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1011397?hl=en https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1011397?hl=en
    - fabulist 11y ago
      "We use the information we collect from all of our services to provide, maintain, protect and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Google and our users. We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads." https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ "When you visit a website that uses our advertising products (like AdSense), social products (like the +1 button) or analytics tools (Google Analytics), your web browser automatically sends certain information to Google... When you visit websites or use apps that use Google technologies, we may use the information we receive from those websites and apps..." https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/ https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/ It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims.
hk__2 11y ago
We don’t have the resources for this. If you have any suggestion for a service that doesn’t require us time to manage we’d be very grateful. Homebrew have a dozen maintainers for >30 PRs & issues per day plus maintaining our own CI infrastructure plus normal development; and all of this is on our spare time.
- SoOnThe1Hand 11y ago
  So the project is short-handed, but wants to take on scouring analytics to start packaging common things people are doing with the software. If you're too busy to do this "right" why bother? Are you hoping making more shortcuts will increase adoption? Current employer doesn't much care about these things, but last employer did. Having shared this thread with their IT folks, they've decided to cut people off from homebrew while they figure it out. I guess costing yourself users is one way to free up some time.
  - hk__2 11y ago
    As I wrote we’d be very grateful if you had any suggestion.
    - Touche 11y ago
      Have you tried getting donations for the project? Have you tried joining a foundation that supports open source projects (like Apache)?
      - hk__2 11y ago
        Yes we recently joined the Software Freedom Conservancy so we can now accept donations.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  As a Homebrew user, thanks for your efforts. I'm totally fine with the change myself, and I apologize for everyone else in here who cares about their privacy, but doesn't really care about the time volunteers are committing, nor the time savings from this feature.

Collecting telemetry is reasonably, but it seems inappropriate for Google to get a copy and to be able to identify which of their users installed a particular piece of software from the IP address. So yes. Running their own server would be much preferable.

estel 11y ago
For Homebrew: > The Google Analytics anonymous IP setting is enabled i.e. 1 (https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/collection/protocol/v1/parameters#aip https://developers.google.com/analytics/devguides/collection...)
- dogecoinbase 11y ago
  It's worth noting that AIP's functionality requires you to trust Google -- the data is received by them, but their design specifies that they mask it before it's processed or stored.
  - creshal 11y ago
    Or so they claim.
- fabulist 11y ago
  While I feel we should all treat Google with skepticism here, I didn't realize they (and so failed to acknowledge) that Homebrew was attempting to remedy that, so I apologize for speaking out of turn.

iagooar 11y ago

I think it would be, yes. At least, it would not get into the hands of an external 3rd party (that as we know, lives from selling / using data they gather from people).

TheLogothete 11y ago
Google does not use GA data unless the webmaster chooses to share it with them. I'm not sure if they use it to improve their ad products, but I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is no.
- TheLogothete 11y ago
  ARGH! I HATE TEH GOOGLE AND TEH MARKETERS AND I WILL DOWNVOTE YOU BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE ANALYTICS. IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT YOU ARE RIGHT.
- joepie91_ 11y ago
  Firstly, this is a decision that should be up to the user, not the webmaster. Secondly, do you have a source for that? I find that a very dubious claim, from a business perspective.
  - TheLogothete 11y ago
    Everyone who has signed up for GA knows it. When you sign up you are asked 2 questions: Do you want to share data with google to imrpove our products? Do you want to pool your data for benchmarking purposes? Both are unchecked by default. But here you go, I will search for "google analytics data sharing" for you. https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1011397?hl=en https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/1011397?hl=en
  - fabulist 11y ago
    "We use the information we collect from all of our services to provide, maintain, protect and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Google and our users. We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads." https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ "When you visit a website that uses our advertising products (like AdSense), social products (like the +1 button) or analytics tools (Google Analytics), your web browser automatically sends certain information to Google... When you visit websites or use apps that use Google technologies, we may use the information we receive from those websites and apps..." https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/ https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/ It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims.

hk__2 11y ago

We don’t have the resources for this. If you have any suggestion for a service that doesn’t require us time to manage we’d be very grateful. Homebrew have a dozen maintainers for >30 PRs & issues per day plus maintaining our own CI infrastructure plus normal development; and all of this is on our spare time.

SoOnThe1Hand 11y ago
So the project is short-handed, but wants to take on scouring analytics to start packaging common things people are doing with the software. If you're too busy to do this "right" why bother? Are you hoping making more shortcuts will increase adoption? Current employer doesn't much care about these things, but last employer did. Having shared this thread with their IT folks, they've decided to cut people off from homebrew while they figure it out. I guess costing yourself users is one way to free up some time.
- hk__2 11y ago
  As I wrote we’d be very grateful if you had any suggestion.
  - Touche 11y ago
    Have you tried getting donations for the project? Have you tried joining a foundation that supports open source projects (like Apache)?
    - hk__2 11y ago
      Yes we recently joined the Software Freedom Conservancy so we can now accept donations.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
As a Homebrew user, thanks for your efforts. I'm totally fine with the change myself, and I apologize for everyone else in here who cares about their privacy, but doesn't really care about the time volunteers are committing, nor the time savings from this feature.