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If you look a little deeper, the foundation of the concept of "Wellness Programs" is to raise all rates paid by employees across the board, then provide discoun

If you look a little deeper, the foundation of the concept of "Wellness Programs" is to raise all rates paid by employees across the board, then provide discounts for behaviors that are approved (basically sharing PMI data with a 3rd party). In the US this is because - to my understanding - laws prevent insurance companies and companies from 'discriminating' in their pricing. As in, they can't penalize most people for simply being unhealthy (vs. legal to penalize for tobacco use) so the way to soften the bottom line effect is to raise everything and give discounts. In my experience there is simply surface-level masking by calling it a "Wellness Program" instead of a data collection healthcare discount program, because a lot of lifestyle changes needed to promote genuine health aren't really incorporated. As in, healthier diet of fresh foods, better rest at night, free access to exercise facilities.

robg 11y ago
As in, healthier diet of fresh foods, better rest at night, free access to exercise facilities. And yet, a stressful work environment will lead to unhealthy eating habits, less restful sleep, and less exercise if not a dedicated routine to combat the stress. Amazing to me that stress is a still a bastard stepchild of health when it affects health and performance.
OnlineCourage 11y ago
Your understanding is incorrect, actually. HMOs do charge higher insurance rates for people who are less healthy on the aggregate. You are using the word, "penalize," but it has nothing to do with penalties, it has to do with market offerings, as HMOs offer insurance to employers based upon the risk pools. If we use your word, "penalty," to mean "higher pricing," - then less healthy workforces get penalized with higher rates for being unhealthy, sort of like group punishment. Of course using the word penalty or punishment makes it sound like there is some kind of unfair aggressor involved, like a parent punishing their kid for having cancer. In reality it's a cold, heartless, unfeeling robot assigning values based upon what it predicts will happen. See my other response for more explanation on that.
- gergles 11y ago
  OP is talking on an individual person level, not a group level. "Wellness programs" exist to penalize individuals doing things that make the group's price more expensive.
  - OnlineCourage 11y ago
    If you read my other comment on this thread, you will understand more about where I'm coming from. Sorry...I didn't want to repeat a huge wall of text.
emodendroket 11y ago
> As in, healthier diet of fresh foods, better rest at night, free access to exercise facilities. Well of course not; it might cost the company money to make those things available.
- theforceawakens 11y ago
  Actually, that's the point of discussion - Is the ratio of (money spent on incentives):(money saved in insurance costs), high or low?
  - emodendroket 11y ago
    Not really; a lot of the initiatives don't require your employer to do many things differently (for instance, newsletters).
theforceawakens 11y ago
Thanks for the insight. I think you bring a very good perspective to this. Although I am not very sure, what you really mean by saying "a lot of lifestyle changes needed to promote genuine health aren't really incorporated"...do you mean the employers don't promote them? Or the incentives you are relating to don't fall under the "wellness program" benefits in general to receive a credit/discount (from the standpoint of insurance companies)?
- Pitarou 11y ago
  I think he means that they promote the aspects of wellness that are easily observable, because these are the things that an insurer pays attention to when setting a price. For instance, an insurer won't take any interest in your diet, because that's hard to measure, but they will take a keen interest in your BMI and cardiovascular fitness.
  - theforceawakens 11y ago
    Thanks. Makes sense.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  A genuine wellness program would, for instance, give employees discounts on commercial fitness gym memberships or certain categories of foods, offer compensatory time off for hours worked in excess of 40 in any given week, sponsor moderated team obesity reduction contests, sponsor smoking cessation support efforts, sponsor athletic clubs and events for employees, give vitamin D reminders throughout the cold, dark winter months, etc. The typical "wellness program" gives you a $X discount over the plan year in exchange for a 3rd-party call center company to collect your health information and nag you to not be so unhealthy over the phone at regular intervals. They have to tiptoe around ADA and anti-discrimination laws. The insurance discount is wholly insufficient to pay for any measure that would genuinely impact health. Given the choice between giving employees a direct $120 a year benefit for gym membership and splitting $50 discount to the employee and $70 expense to a professional call center nag, the group insurer invariably picks the latter. You see, if you just give away the fitness gym membership, there's no leverage to make the employee actually go there and work out. My current company invites people to get free blood pressure checks from staff of the local hospital system. I am not fooled by this. This is not motivated by concern for my health, but as a means to monitor the blood pressure of employees who already feel they must do so. The measurement is free, during business hours. Any intervention that might improve health, such as counseling or medication, has to come from the employee's own pocket, on their own time.

robg 11y ago

As in, healthier diet of fresh foods, better rest at night, free access to exercise facilities. And yet, a stressful work environment will lead to unhealthy eating habits, less restful sleep, and less exercise if not a dedicated routine to combat the stress. Amazing to me that stress is a still a bastard stepchild of health when it affects health and performance.

OnlineCourage 11y ago

Your understanding is incorrect, actually. HMOs do charge higher insurance rates for people who are less healthy on the aggregate. You are using the word, "penalize," but it has nothing to do with penalties, it has to do with market offerings, as HMOs offer insurance to employers based upon the risk pools. If we use your word, "penalty," to mean "higher pricing," - then less healthy workforces get penalized with higher rates for being unhealthy, sort of like group punishment. Of course using the word penalty or punishment makes it sound like there is some kind of unfair aggressor involved, like a parent punishing their kid for having cancer. In reality it's a cold, heartless, unfeeling robot assigning values based upon what it predicts will happen. See my other response for more explanation on that.

gergles 11y ago
OP is talking on an individual person level, not a group level. "Wellness programs" exist to penalize individuals doing things that make the group's price more expensive.
- OnlineCourage 11y ago
  If you read my other comment on this thread, you will understand more about where I'm coming from. Sorry...I didn't want to repeat a huge wall of text.

emodendroket 11y ago

> As in, healthier diet of fresh foods, better rest at night, free access to exercise facilities. Well of course not; it might cost the company money to make those things available.

theforceawakens 11y ago
Actually, that's the point of discussion - Is the ratio of (money spent on incentives):(money saved in insurance costs), high or low?
- emodendroket 11y ago
  Not really; a lot of the initiatives don't require your employer to do many things differently (for instance, newsletters).

theforceawakens 11y ago

Thanks for the insight. I think you bring a very good perspective to this. Although I am not very sure, what you really mean by saying "a lot of lifestyle changes needed to promote genuine health aren't really incorporated"...do you mean the employers don't promote them? Or the incentives you are relating to don't fall under the "wellness program" benefits in general to receive a credit/discount (from the standpoint of insurance companies)?

Pitarou 11y ago
I think he means that they promote the aspects of wellness that are easily observable, because these are the things that an insurer pays attention to when setting a price. For instance, an insurer won't take any interest in your diet, because that's hard to measure, but they will take a keen interest in your BMI and cardiovascular fitness.
- theforceawakens 11y ago
  Thanks. Makes sense.
logfromblammo 11y ago
A genuine wellness program would, for instance, give employees discounts on commercial fitness gym memberships or certain categories of foods, offer compensatory time off for hours worked in excess of 40 in any given week, sponsor moderated team obesity reduction contests, sponsor smoking cessation support efforts, sponsor athletic clubs and events for employees, give vitamin D reminders throughout the cold, dark winter months, etc. The typical "wellness program" gives you a $X discount over the plan year in exchange for a 3rd-party call center company to collect your health information and nag you to not be so unhealthy over the phone at regular intervals. They have to tiptoe around ADA and anti-discrimination laws. The insurance discount is wholly insufficient to pay for any measure that would genuinely impact health. Given the choice between giving employees a direct $120 a year benefit for gym membership and splitting $50 discount to the employee and $70 expense to a professional call center nag, the group insurer invariably picks the latter. You see, if you just give away the fitness gym membership, there's no leverage to make the employee actually go there and work out. My current company invites people to get free blood pressure checks from staff of the local hospital system. I am not fooled by this. This is not motivated by concern for my health, but as a means to monitor the blood pressure of employees who already feel they must do so. The measurement is free, during business hours. Any intervention that might improve health, such as counseling or medication, has to come from the employee's own pocket, on their own time.