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It's nice to see that lobbying isn't just for large corporations, but vegas showmen can milk this ridiculous, broken system too. /s

ethanbond 11y ago
And environmental groups. And human rights groups. And consumer rights groups. And safety advocacy groups... etc.
- Aelinsaar 11y ago
  Yes, but they're not so well funded, and their positions are fundamentally harder to communicate than simple, manipulative, well funded campaigns. It's like comparing a pre-school and a military school because they both share the words "School". You won't be totally wrong of course, but you will have missed the point.
  - pc86 11y ago
    Funny how the minute we don't like something it becomes manipulative.
    - Aelinsaar 11y ago
      I think I was pretty clear that the amount of money and power existing in asymmetry is the issue, not whether I like it or not.
  - ethanbond 11y ago
    I don't disagree, but a lot of people don't understand that the term "lobbying" in fact does not just refer to evil corporations bribing politicians, and thus should not be categorically made illegal.
    - Aelinsaar 11y ago
      I think it's worth remembering that when people talk about "Lobbying", they are often talking about a particular subset of lobbying attached to extremely vast sources of money and power. More, the unrestricted nature of that lobbying, in practice, breaks the system down. It would be the case if this were happening with well-intentioned environmentalists too, although I'm sure it would look very different in the particulars. The fact is though, that in history doesn't teach us to be concerned about vastly wealthy and powerful environmental interests. Maybe that will change someday, but it's not the history of our planet at least. tl;dr Context
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
Turns out that people, technically speaking, have a constitutional right to petition their government.
AndyNemmity 11y ago
How much money was used in lobbying for this? I'd be shocked if the number was all that high. It's a pet complaint within Magic circles that Magic should be treated like an art form, but I wouldn't expect anyone to actually throw a large sum behind it.

ethanbond 11y ago

And environmental groups. And human rights groups. And consumer rights groups. And safety advocacy groups... etc.

Aelinsaar 11y ago
Yes, but they're not so well funded, and their positions are fundamentally harder to communicate than simple, manipulative, well funded campaigns. It's like comparing a pre-school and a military school because they both share the words "School". You won't be totally wrong of course, but you will have missed the point.
- pc86 11y ago
  Funny how the minute we don't like something it becomes manipulative.
  - Aelinsaar 11y ago
    I think I was pretty clear that the amount of money and power existing in asymmetry is the issue, not whether I like it or not.
- ethanbond 11y ago
  I don't disagree, but a lot of people don't understand that the term "lobbying" in fact does not just refer to evil corporations bribing politicians, and thus should not be categorically made illegal.
  - Aelinsaar 11y ago
    I think it's worth remembering that when people talk about "Lobbying", they are often talking about a particular subset of lobbying attached to extremely vast sources of money and power. More, the unrestricted nature of that lobbying, in practice, breaks the system down. It would be the case if this were happening with well-intentioned environmentalists too, although I'm sure it would look very different in the particulars. The fact is though, that in history doesn't teach us to be concerned about vastly wealthy and powerful environmental interests. Maybe that will change someday, but it's not the history of our planet at least. tl;dr Context

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago

Turns out that people, technically speaking, have a constitutional right to petition their government.

AndyNemmity 11y ago

How much money was used in lobbying for this? I'd be shocked if the number was all that high. It's a pet complaint within Magic circles that Magic should be treated like an art form, but I wouldn't expect anyone to actually throw a large sum behind it.