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There was a defcon talk where the speaker did set his BTS to the same frequency as was allowed for ham radio or somesuch, which might be legal...but I very much

There was a defcon talk where the speaker did set his BTS to the same frequency as was allowed for ham radio or somesuch, which might be legal...but I very much doubt that :D Think it was this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKihq1fClQg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKihq1fClQg

tomkinstinch 10y ago
If the transmission was encrypted, it would have also been illegal on the amateur bands [1]. This isn't 90s crypto-war paranoia; the concern about encryption is that if transmissions on the amateur bands are allowed to be obscured, unscrupulous individuals (say, taxi companies), could flood the amateur bands with commercial transmissions rather than pay for a share of the commercial bands. This goes against the open, public intent behind amateur bands, and takes away bandwidth from amateur users (read: the public, you and me). The FCC is looking out for us. Radio spectrum is a finite resource. If you look at a chart [2] of US Frequency allocations, amateur radio operators have been given the right to transmit on a relatively massive fraction of the physically available spectrum. It would easily be worth billions if it were commercial. Instead, due to the quirks of history, the public has been given wondrous access to the airwaves. It's a public resource, like a park, and it's the Grand Canyon, it's Yellowstone, it's Yosemite. As hackers we have to respect it, and we have to protect it by using it responsibly. We need to get licensed, and we need to educate others so we can avoid a tragedy of the commons. Illegal transmissions are like litter. If we don't follow the rules and treat the amateur spectrum well, the FCC could plausibly decide to auction it off. It's not like there isn't pressure to do so. Demonstrating a DIY BTS is very cool, but at least have the decency to test it in a faraday cage. Don't litter in my park. Amateur radio is fun, and it's one of the original electronics hacker activities. Get licensed, assemble a few simple electronic components, and talk to someone else (often like you), potentially thousands of miles away. All without reliance on any extant communications infrastructure. How cool is that? It's a tremendous way to learn about physics and electronics, and there are many exciting things happening with digital transmissions. It's a magical thing when you hear a foreign voice coming from your speaker, carried from a transmitter a continent away. Learn, build, and have (responsible) fun in the park! 1. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.113 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.113 2. https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/2003-allochrt.pdf https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/2003-alloch...
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  Interesting. Never heard this argument. I'd counter by saying WiFi bands are encrypted but commercial use hasnt swampee them. So not sure how likely the scenario is. Nonetheless, I'd be up for discussing escrowed, authenticated encryption or key retention with random civil audits. That would be better than nothing. They could have an auditor that's nog a cop get the keys to certain transmissions to check them. Only forwarded to authorities if criminal activity is found. This would let us retain privacy quite a bit while mitigating issue you mentioned.
  - oasisbob 10y ago
    It's not really an argument that can be countered - in-the-clear operation is a regulation and fact of life that every amateur operator knows and must abide by.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Clearly, I meant in a presentation to the FCC that tries to change the regulations.
  - simcop2387 10y ago
    I think part of it is that WiFi (2.4ghz and 5ghz) are both not very penetrating compared to most of the amateur bands (sub 1ghz). That means that long range commercial use of them would be very difficult. This is why companies like Time Warner, who are trying to use them for commercial wifi end up installing special modems/routers in customers homes to be able to accomplish the task.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Ahhhh. That makes sense. Maybe a multi-year trial is in order.
    - madengr 10y ago
      Ham operators can run 1.5kW on the 2 GHz wifi band.

tomkinstinch 10y ago

If the transmission was encrypted, it would have also been illegal on the amateur bands [1]. This isn't 90s crypto-war paranoia; the concern about encryption is that if transmissions on the amateur bands are allowed to be obscured, unscrupulous individuals (say, taxi companies), could flood the amateur bands with commercial transmissions rather than pay for a share of the commercial bands. This goes against the open, public intent behind amateur bands, and takes away bandwidth from amateur users (read: the public, you and me). The FCC is looking out for us. Radio spectrum is a finite resource. If you look at a chart [2] of US Frequency allocations, amateur radio operators have been given the right to transmit on a relatively massive fraction of the physically available spectrum. It would easily be worth billions if it were commercial. Instead, due to the quirks of history, the public has been given wondrous access to the airwaves. It's a public resource, like a park, and it's the Grand Canyon, it's Yellowstone, it's Yosemite. As hackers we have to respect it, and we have to protect it by using it responsibly. We need to get licensed, and we need to educate others so we can avoid a tragedy of the commons. Illegal transmissions are like litter. If we don't follow the rules and treat the amateur spectrum well, the FCC could plausibly decide to auction it off. It's not like there isn't pressure to do so. Demonstrating a DIY BTS is very cool, but at least have the decency to test it in a faraday cage. Don't litter in my park. Amateur radio is fun, and it's one of the original electronics hacker activities. Get licensed, assemble a few simple electronic components, and talk to someone else (often like you), potentially thousands of miles away. All without reliance on any extant communications infrastructure. How cool is that? It's a tremendous way to learn about physics and electronics, and there are many exciting things happening with digital transmissions. It's a magical thing when you hear a foreign voice coming from your speaker, carried from a transmitter a continent away. Learn, build, and have (responsible) fun in the park! 1. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.113 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.113 2. https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/2003-allochrt.pdf https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/2003-alloch...

nickpsecurity 10y ago
Interesting. Never heard this argument. I'd counter by saying WiFi bands are encrypted but commercial use hasnt swampee them. So not sure how likely the scenario is. Nonetheless, I'd be up for discussing escrowed, authenticated encryption or key retention with random civil audits. That would be better than nothing. They could have an auditor that's nog a cop get the keys to certain transmissions to check them. Only forwarded to authorities if criminal activity is found. This would let us retain privacy quite a bit while mitigating issue you mentioned.
- oasisbob 10y ago
  It's not really an argument that can be countered - in-the-clear operation is a regulation and fact of life that every amateur operator knows and must abide by.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Clearly, I meant in a presentation to the FCC that tries to change the regulations.
- simcop2387 10y ago
  I think part of it is that WiFi (2.4ghz and 5ghz) are both not very penetrating compared to most of the amateur bands (sub 1ghz). That means that long range commercial use of them would be very difficult. This is why companies like Time Warner, who are trying to use them for commercial wifi end up installing special modems/routers in customers homes to be able to accomplish the task.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Ahhhh. That makes sense. Maybe a multi-year trial is in order.
  - madengr 10y ago
    Ham operators can run 1.5kW on the 2 GHz wifi band.