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If I understand you, you're suggesting a course of corrective action that doesn't simply look at a given event (e.g. robbing a woman at knifepoint) when suggest

by mjolk 10y ago

If I understand you, you're suggesting a course of corrective action that doesn't simply look at a given event (e.g. robbing a woman at knifepoint) when suggesting punishment for a crime. This is already the case in US courts, wherein judges are allowed to know prior convictions and extenuating circumstances. Counseling and treatment is already a part of the legal process. More contentiously, there's always a sob story that can be spun for any given criminal, but ultimately, I believe it dangerous to hand-wave away the role of personal agency. Being born poor is obviously not a personal choice, but actions taken along the way (having a child when young), taking the risk with illegal and highly addictive drugs, committing violent crime, are conscious acts that unsurprisingly make it harder to get out of poverty. The consequences of those actions is likely particularly known in lower income areas. You're thinking about this from the position of a logical person who cares about the welfare of others. Decriminalizing assault and theft is asking victims to take part in a system in which they pay money to support people who are causing harm.

bkirkbri 10y ago
> Being born poor is obviously not a personal choice, but actions taken along the way (having a child when young), taking the risk with illegal and highly addictive drugs, committing violent crime, are conscious acts that unsurprisingly make it harder to get out of poverty. The consequences of those actions is likely particularly known in lower income areas. I was raised with the same belief, however I have learned through broader experience that people from varying backgrounds have vastly different ways of perceiving and evaluating the information in front of them. I do not mean this to indicate, for example, that people in poverty are inferior and incapable of logically assessing the consequences of a teen pregnancy. Rather, I would suggest that you and I were likely privy to a myriad of small, incremental and beneficial teachings and experiences that led to our view of teen pregnancy. As a result I believe it unwise to judge others, who did not have the privilege of those same teachings, based on the assumption that they knew the "unsurprising" "consequences" of their actions.
- mjolk 10y ago
  I'm not judging -- I'm stating facts. Also, I was hoping to hint at that policing crime isn't the same as criminalizing being poor. It's possible to be flat out broke and not commit crimes. Having grown up in a town where the high school graduation rate was below 80%, I can assure you that it's not unfair to expect people from low-income families to know the consequences of their actions. This is pretty far from my statement of not excusing or ignoring crimes committed by those in poverty, especially violent crimes.

by mjolk 10y ago

bkirkbri 10y ago

> Being born poor is obviously not a personal choice, but actions taken along the way (having a child when young), taking the risk with illegal and highly addictive drugs, committing violent crime, are conscious acts that unsurprisingly make it harder to get out of poverty. The consequences of those actions is likely particularly known in lower income areas. I was raised with the same belief, however I have learned through broader experience that people from varying backgrounds have vastly different ways of perceiving and evaluating the information in front of them. I do not mean this to indicate, for example, that people in poverty are inferior and incapable of logically assessing the consequences of a teen pregnancy. Rather, I would suggest that you and I were likely privy to a myriad of small, incremental and beneficial teachings and experiences that led to our view of teen pregnancy. As a result I believe it unwise to judge others, who did not have the privilege of those same teachings, based on the assumption that they knew the "unsurprising" "consequences" of their actions.

mjolk 10y ago
I'm not judging -- I'm stating facts. Also, I was hoping to hint at that policing crime isn't the same as criminalizing being poor. It's possible to be flat out broke and not commit crimes. Having grown up in a town where the high school graduation rate was below 80%, I can assure you that it's not unfair to expect people from low-income families to know the consequences of their actions. This is pretty far from my statement of not excusing or ignoring crimes committed by those in poverty, especially violent crimes.