6 ms·

Al Gore: We Can’t Wish Away Climate Change

32 points by bengebre 17y ago

detcader 17y ago
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/al_gore_gets_a_poll.php http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/al_gore_gets_a_po... A great visual at the end of this article.
- dschobel 17y ago
  The problem with that visual is that it ignores the fact that the same social mechanism that blindly repeats the anti-global warming line today was repeating the pro-global warming line a few months ago. It's not clear whether the author's objection is that society reduces nuanced and still developing scientific research to sound bites and repeats that as if it were canon, or the fact that the message has turned against AGW (or at least not as vehemently pro-AGW).
wheels 17y ago
I usually flag all of the climate change stuff here, but this one got an upvote. While I've not been excited about Kerry, Hilary or Obama, every time I read something from Gore, I feel like the US missed out on being able to count him among its presidents. This article exemplifies why: he's taken an issue that is central to our times and approaching it with reason and passion.
- lionhearted 17y ago
  > I usually flag all of the climate change stuff here, but this one got an upvote. Wait, you usually flag the articles that show the science for climate change, or the science against climate change - you flag those, but you upvoted a political call to action written by a non-scientist?
  - wheels 17y ago
    The overwhelming majority of posts here on climate change are mediocre editorials by non-scientists: http://searchyc.com/submissions/climate+change?sort=by_date http://searchyc.com/submissions/climate+change?sort=by_date I don't flag the ones that are data-oriented, but do flag most editorials. This one, specifically, was a mark above most of those enough that I found it worthwhile. While Gore is obviously partisan, I find it disingenuous to lump him in with the bulk of partisan hackery on the topic.
    - ax0n 17y ago
      It is not, however, disingenuous to lump him in with the mediocre non-scientists.
    - elblanco 17y ago
      I hope you know there's a downvote button you can use instead of a flag.
      - torial 17y ago
        What threshold do you need to get that downvote button? I don't see it yet.
        ax0n 17y ago
        I think I noticed my downvote button showed up around 200 karma?
fnid2 17y ago
I think it is possible to believe in climate change and not believe in anthropogenic warming. It's just like pascal's wager. Let's assume just the two options where the globe is warming, is it man's fault or not? Let's assume it is man's fault and there are two options, we can do something or we can't. If we can't and we try, we wasted a huge effort to stop something we can't stop. If it isn't our fault, then we start to look at ways to adapt and have a better chance of survival. No one is suggesting better air conditioners as a solution to global warming, but something like that may be our only hope. The problem with blaming man is that it might be our behavior that is actually keeping the globe cool. For example, Global Dimming may be counteracting the effects of what could be a natural warming cycle due to sun spots: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming and PBS's Nova did a show on it as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o1iXRU_5WU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o1iXRU_5WU If we stop polluting through the emission of particulate matter, then the global warming may actually get worse!
- cema 17y ago
  Should not be a matter of belief. Should be a matter of science.
  - fnid2 17y ago
    Should be, except that the science has been corrupted by special interests.
    - DaniFong 17y ago
      How can you be so sure that your understanding of science has not been corrupted by special interests? It seems to me that if one were to pick a population to corrupt, one would pick the intellectually lazy majority...
      - ErrantX 17y ago
        Not necessarily; it might be easier to corrupt scientists because they are traditionally black/white on controversial issues. As someone not in either the "intellectually lazy majority" or the hardcore scientific minority it's fairly clear both things are going on. The science is being corrupted quite a bit by the media and politico's to be spoon fed to the populace on their own agenda :)
wedesoft 17y ago
The article is worth studying as a masterpiece of political rhetorics. A salesman truly shows his skills when selling a bad product. He explains that some side issues in the debate (IPCC claims about disappearing Himalaya glaciers,FOIA violations) are mistakes and he conveniently ignores the big elephant in the room: tampering with temperature records, corruption of the peer review process, lack of evidence for AGW. And this is all coming from the same Al Gore who used to make false claims about melting polar ice caps, increases in sea level rise, ... in his movie "An Inconvenient Truth". To cite [1]: "You can bet he’d be making the same claim if we had a below normal snowfall records too." [1] http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/23/the-goracle-forecast-agwmore-snow/ http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/23/the-goracle-forecast-a...

32 points by bengebre 17y ago

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/al_gore_gets_a_poll.php http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/al_gore_gets_a_po... A great visual at the end of this article.

dschobel 17y ago
The problem with that visual is that it ignores the fact that the same social mechanism that blindly repeats the anti-global warming line today was repeating the pro-global warming line a few months ago. It's not clear whether the author's objection is that society reduces nuanced and still developing scientific research to sound bites and repeats that as if it were canon, or the fact that the message has turned against AGW (or at least not as vehemently pro-AGW).

wheels 17y ago

I usually flag all of the climate change stuff here, but this one got an upvote. While I've not been excited about Kerry, Hilary or Obama, every time I read something from Gore, I feel like the US missed out on being able to count him among its presidents. This article exemplifies why: he's taken an issue that is central to our times and approaching it with reason and passion.

lionhearted 17y ago
> I usually flag all of the climate change stuff here, but this one got an upvote. Wait, you usually flag the articles that show the science for climate change, or the science against climate change - you flag those, but you upvoted a political call to action written by a non-scientist?
- wheels 17y ago
  The overwhelming majority of posts here on climate change are mediocre editorials by non-scientists: http://searchyc.com/submissions/climate+change?sort=by_date http://searchyc.com/submissions/climate+change?sort=by_date I don't flag the ones that are data-oriented, but do flag most editorials. This one, specifically, was a mark above most of those enough that I found it worthwhile. While Gore is obviously partisan, I find it disingenuous to lump him in with the bulk of partisan hackery on the topic.
  - ax0n 17y ago
    It is not, however, disingenuous to lump him in with the mediocre non-scientists.
  - elblanco 17y ago
    I hope you know there's a downvote button you can use instead of a flag.
    - torial 17y ago
      What threshold do you need to get that downvote button? I don't see it yet.
      - ax0n 17y ago
        I think I noticed my downvote button showed up around 200 karma?

fnid2 17y ago

I think it is possible to believe in climate change and not believe in anthropogenic warming. It's just like pascal's wager. Let's assume just the two options where the globe is warming, is it man's fault or not? Let's assume it is man's fault and there are two options, we can do something or we can't. If we can't and we try, we wasted a huge effort to stop something we can't stop. If it isn't our fault, then we start to look at ways to adapt and have a better chance of survival. No one is suggesting better air conditioners as a solution to global warming, but something like that may be our only hope. The problem with blaming man is that it might be our behavior that is actually keeping the globe cool. For example, Global Dimming may be counteracting the effects of what could be a natural warming cycle due to sun spots: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming and PBS's Nova did a show on it as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o1iXRU_5WU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o1iXRU_5WU If we stop polluting through the emission of particulate matter, then the global warming may actually get worse!

cema 17y ago
Should not be a matter of belief. Should be a matter of science.
- fnid2 17y ago
  Should be, except that the science has been corrupted by special interests.
  - DaniFong 17y ago
    How can you be so sure that your understanding of science has not been corrupted by special interests? It seems to me that if one were to pick a population to corrupt, one would pick the intellectually lazy majority...
    - ErrantX 17y ago
      Not necessarily; it might be easier to corrupt scientists because they are traditionally black/white on controversial issues. As someone not in either the "intellectually lazy majority" or the hardcore scientific minority it's fairly clear both things are going on. The science is being corrupted quite a bit by the media and politico's to be spoon fed to the populace on their own agenda :)

wedesoft 17y ago

The article is worth studying as a masterpiece of political rhetorics. A salesman truly shows his skills when selling a bad product. He explains that some side issues in the debate (IPCC claims about disappearing Himalaya glaciers,FOIA violations) are mistakes and he conveniently ignores the big elephant in the room: tampering with temperature records, corruption of the peer review process, lack of evidence for AGW. And this is all coming from the same Al Gore who used to make false claims about melting polar ice caps, increases in sea level rise, ... in his movie "An Inconvenient Truth". To cite [1]: "You can bet he’d be making the same claim if we had a below normal snowfall records too." [1] http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/23/the-goracle-forecast-agwmore-snow/ http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/23/the-goracle-forecast-a...