7 ms·

Uber's playbook for sabotaging Lyft (2014)

110 points by isomorph 10y ago

ape4 10y ago
Looks like Nenshi was right. (Recently in Boston the Mayor of Calgary said Uber were "Dicks")
Odenwaelder 10y ago
Capitalism. I laughed hard when Uber left Germany because they were clashing with regalatians.
- dandare 10y ago
  would you mind elaborating how this relates to capitalism? Please answer only if you have arguments, I am not interested in ideology, thanks.
- tim333 10y ago
  Uber are still in Berlin and Munich.
  - germanier 10y ago
    It's not the same service as elsewhere. They either arrange a regular taxi (Berlin) or use licensed limousine companies (Munich).
eknkc 10y ago
We don't have Uber here in my country. But I find it interesting that almost everything I read about Uber's customer experience is positive. People seem to like Uber rides. Meanwhile, every other news about the company itself implies that it's a tasteless company with shitty tactics. I wonder if it's the ultimate capitalist success path. Just a complete outsiders observation. I don't personally have a single experience with them.
- SyneRyder 10y ago
  I think some of the genius of Uber was identifying an industry where the quality was so incredibly low, and yet customers tolerated it anyway. I used to catch taxis every week, and one taxi driver spent the trip explaining to me why he believed Hitler had the right idea. Another taxi driver lectured me on the religious immorality of nightclubs & drinking alcohol before letting me out of his car. Another driver spent the trip talking to his girlfriend on the phone, forbidding her to take a job she had been offered because he believed a woman's place was in the home. Uber is soooo much better, but the quality bar is so low that it isn't difficult to be better. It's just that no-one had dared to compete before (because government regulations prohibited anyone from doing so).
  - thearn4 10y ago
    Agreed. I had to take a cab from O'Hare to Skokie a few months back (because I can't expense an Uber w/the gov't travel system). Smelled like fresh urine, and the guy had no idea where he was going. I had to direct him with my phone. And he still expected a tip.
    - ewzimm 10y ago
      With the most recent taxi I took, the driver didn't know how to program his GPS, so he handed it to me to program and then ignored it, so I had to also program my phone, which he also ignored, so I had to call out every turn several times, which he also ignored, backtracking, extending the route, and asking where we were, to one of the main streets in the city. Next I tried Uber twice, and the drivers showed up immediately, were friendly, and offered a tour of interesting spots in the city as we went and made suggestions about favorite places to visit around town. Also, the same trip was 1/10th the price. If that's even sometimes typical, I don't see how Uber can lose. I do hope the company can act responsibly and keep up that kind of service.
  - jzwinck 10y ago
    I have found a fairly frequent distinction between taxi drivers and Uber drivers as well. Taxi drivers must be at least 30 years old, which may skew it slightly, though young Uber drivers are not the norm either. Uber drivers tend to shoot the shit more, talk informally about business, about their day jobs, maybe about politics or what restaurants are nearby. Taxi drivers tend to talk about the past, about passengers they've had, or about how bad other drivers are. Maybe this is because a lot of Uber drivers are only part-time, so their life experience has more facets. Maybe it's because of the age bias. Or perhaps it's because feedback about taxi drivers is rarely registered. In any case, the expected value of conversation is higher with Uber than a taxi. I suspect it's likely to level out over time; I hope taxis drivers will up their game rather than Uber ones lowering theirs.
pcrh 10y ago
To me, the need to resort to such tactics indicates that Uber doesn't have a very big advantage over its competitors. The usual reason passengers seem to prefer Uber is their easier availability and greater reliability. Others will catch on to this soon enough. It is also notable that in places with a better reputation for taxi services, such as in London, Uber's inroads have not been as great as they have been in SF or NY.
- eertami 10y ago
  >better reputation for taxi services, such as in London, Uber's inroads have not been as great as they have been in SF or NY. Odd, my personal experience has been the exact opposite. I can't remember any of my friends (aged in their 20s) ever getting a taxi in London but catching Uber's is a weekly occurrence.
  - Wintamute 10y ago
    Same. London black cabs are fairly expensive, and at busy times (like just after pubs and bars close at night) you can have a really hard time trying to find one. I don't know what the deal is with the non-black cabs in London ... but they seem more shady, it's much harder to tell if the driver is registered or just some dude with a car, so I just avoid them. Uber solves both these problems. I and my friends are in our 30s, and we nearly all have been using Uber exclusively since it arrived.
    - throwaway049 10y ago
      If you're flagging down anything but a black taxi in central London then it's just some dude with a car: Official minicabs have to be booked by phone or from their offices.
  - pcrh 10y ago
    A lot of those who used to drive for minicabs now drive under Uber's banner. However, for the last 30 years at least, in London there has always been the distinction between the more loosely regulated (and cheaper) minicabs with the more expensive Black Cabs providing a better service. With the advent of Uber and the like, minicab services have been the most under pressure since Black Cabs have officially sanctioned advantages that minicabs/Uber don't, such as using bus lanes, and actually knowing where they're going (rather than using a GPS). Also, they are more spacious than almost all ordinary vehicles and can accommodate you and up to 5 of your mates/family + luggage for the price of 1. In contrast a typical yellow taxi in NY has a tiny amount of space for the passenger, is usually upholstered with ripped plastic, and the driver is fresh off the boat, and a bit lost. So the improvement Uber offered over the prevailing options was much greater in NY and SF than in London.
chinathrow 10y ago
Tons of people here on HN use Uber - yet most of them know about those shady tactics used by Uber against Lyft. Genuine question: Why would you want to support such a company by being a customer?
- kdamken 10y ago
  The same reason everyone uses iPhones despite them being built in part by child labor - people don't care about how they get things, they care about what they get and how good they are. Uber as a company is slimy that does shady things to crush their competition. But Uber as a service is awesome and provides a way better experience than using a Taxi in most cities.
- alistairSH 10y ago
  UberXL is my most frequent use by far. It's easy to get a large SUV that can seat 6 passengers with room for luggage.
- SyneRyder 10y ago
  I've put my answer a bit higher in the thread: because the competition and customer experience are currently so much worse. (Lyft hasn't arrived in my city yet.) Some of the competitors here have used shady tactics against Uber as well, I've had taxi drivers pull up pretending to be my Uber driver. If a competitor can match or exceed Uber's service, I'd consider switching. The convenience of travelling interstate / overseas & using the same service I use at home is quite compelling though.
  - DavidHm 10y ago
    Taxi drivers pretend to be your Uber driver? How on earth do they expect to get paid?
    - SyneRyder 10y ago
      I did wonder that. Perhaps he would have threatened to call it in to police as a customer refusing to pay. Maybe he just wanted to torch the ratings of Uber customers, by having them no-show for the Uber they actually ordered. The whole thing just felt very unsafe. This happened in the early hours of the morning as well. I was very glad when he finally drove off.
hybridsole 10y ago
Lyft user here. I always ask the question "What do you like about Lyft compared to driving for Uber"? The answer is that Lyft takes better care of them with better pay incentives and less rigorous scheduling demands. If you want more of your money to go to the driver instead of a central command, use Lyft. I've never noticed a lack of drivers in most medium-to-large sized cities that I'm.
- Karunamon 10y ago
  Could you clarify what you mean by "scheduling demands"? As I understand it, Uber is strictly work-when-you-want.
  - robbies 10y ago
    Not OP, but both Uber and Lyft tie bonuses to weekly/monthly acceptance rate and rides completed. I can't recall numbers, and they have been tricky to find on my phone. But I too can anecdotally confirm that Lyft drivers seem to enjoy it more in the Bay Area, and one of the reasons I've heard is that the bonus structure is a bit more liberal.
    - haldean 10y ago
      A Lyft driver told me the other day that it was something like a 30% bonus on whatever you had earned that week when you hit 80 rides in a calendar week.
scalayer 10y ago
I've used Uber much more than Lyft, but I've had almost entirely positive experiences with both. Only one time did a Lyft driver cancel a trip on me after I waited 15mins and almost missed a flight. I reported the incident through the app and a $10 USD credit showed up instantly in my account with a friendly note from the rep. At an airport, an Uber driver picked up my fare and then immediately canceled it which caused a $5 USD charge on my account. A quick report through the app rectified the situation in < 24hrs. The Uber experience is so seamless across time-zones, countries, etc and directly integrates with Expensify. If Lyft expands more into Europe, I will definitely use them as well. I tend to use Lyft more in big US cities. Hailo is also quite popular in Europe. When traveling, I never take a regular taxi if I can help it. The one exception to this is Dublin, Ireland. Taxis are so ubiquitous and cheap that you can get one 24/7 from almost anywhere in city by just walking outside and putting your hand out. For the ultimate in customer service and luxury, Blacklane is better than both. You pay a huge surcharge for it, but sometimes you need a pre-scheduled ride that is 100% reliable.
- SlashmanX 10y ago
  Hailo is immensely popular in Dublin, absolutely fantastic service. Sometimes I take it for granted, then threads about Uber and Lyft come up and I realise how amazing it is.
  - Snowdax 10y ago
    Dublin sure, but lot less decent down the country. Not nearly enough available rides, if any at times.
    - SlashmanX 10y ago
      Yeah but I guess that's a drawback of relying on existing taxi's. It's shocking trying to get a taxi down the country even without Hailo
brudgers 10y ago
Original discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8229081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8229081
blabla_blublu 10y ago
I try to use Lyft as often as I can, they seem to genuinely care for their employees(drivers). Uber is quite ruthless when it comes to pricing. Simple features such as tipping is not present. It is my part-time hobby of sorts to interview drivers who drive for both and inevitably (27 - 1) they prefer driving for Lyft. The one case where the driver said she prefers Uber was that the #rides were more (Bay area). I think voting with your wallet is a powerful concept and in some cases, it is the only thing we can do.
Nursie 10y ago
Uber just came to my town. I won't be using it. We have had a thriving taxi ecosystem here forever, and the money stays locally. I don't want the new worldwide taxi monopoly moving, thanks.
- humbleMouse 10y ago
  I felt the same way until I realized you can literally hit a couple buttons on your phone and have a car pick you up almost instantaneously and I don't have to deal with thinking about payment at all...
  - Nursie 10y ago
    Can do that with the local cab apps too...

110 points by isomorph 10y ago

ape4 10y ago

Looks like Nenshi was right. (Recently in Boston the Mayor of Calgary said Uber were "Dicks")

Odenwaelder 10y ago

Capitalism. I laughed hard when Uber left Germany because they were clashing with regalatians.

dandare 10y ago
would you mind elaborating how this relates to capitalism? Please answer only if you have arguments, I am not interested in ideology, thanks.
tim333 10y ago
Uber are still in Berlin and Munich.
- germanier 10y ago
  It's not the same service as elsewhere. They either arrange a regular taxi (Berlin) or use licensed limousine companies (Munich).

eknkc 10y ago

We don't have Uber here in my country. But I find it interesting that almost everything I read about Uber's customer experience is positive. People seem to like Uber rides. Meanwhile, every other news about the company itself implies that it's a tasteless company with shitty tactics. I wonder if it's the ultimate capitalist success path. Just a complete outsiders observation. I don't personally have a single experience with them.

SyneRyder 10y ago
I think some of the genius of Uber was identifying an industry where the quality was so incredibly low, and yet customers tolerated it anyway. I used to catch taxis every week, and one taxi driver spent the trip explaining to me why he believed Hitler had the right idea. Another taxi driver lectured me on the religious immorality of nightclubs & drinking alcohol before letting me out of his car. Another driver spent the trip talking to his girlfriend on the phone, forbidding her to take a job she had been offered because he believed a woman's place was in the home. Uber is soooo much better, but the quality bar is so low that it isn't difficult to be better. It's just that no-one had dared to compete before (because government regulations prohibited anyone from doing so).
- thearn4 10y ago
  Agreed. I had to take a cab from O'Hare to Skokie a few months back (because I can't expense an Uber w/the gov't travel system). Smelled like fresh urine, and the guy had no idea where he was going. I had to direct him with my phone. And he still expected a tip.
  - ewzimm 10y ago
    With the most recent taxi I took, the driver didn't know how to program his GPS, so he handed it to me to program and then ignored it, so I had to also program my phone, which he also ignored, so I had to call out every turn several times, which he also ignored, backtracking, extending the route, and asking where we were, to one of the main streets in the city. Next I tried Uber twice, and the drivers showed up immediately, were friendly, and offered a tour of interesting spots in the city as we went and made suggestions about favorite places to visit around town. Also, the same trip was 1/10th the price. If that's even sometimes typical, I don't see how Uber can lose. I do hope the company can act responsibly and keep up that kind of service.
- jzwinck 10y ago
  I have found a fairly frequent distinction between taxi drivers and Uber drivers as well. Taxi drivers must be at least 30 years old, which may skew it slightly, though young Uber drivers are not the norm either. Uber drivers tend to shoot the shit more, talk informally about business, about their day jobs, maybe about politics or what restaurants are nearby. Taxi drivers tend to talk about the past, about passengers they've had, or about how bad other drivers are. Maybe this is because a lot of Uber drivers are only part-time, so their life experience has more facets. Maybe it's because of the age bias. Or perhaps it's because feedback about taxi drivers is rarely registered. In any case, the expected value of conversation is higher with Uber than a taxi. I suspect it's likely to level out over time; I hope taxis drivers will up their game rather than Uber ones lowering theirs.

pcrh 10y ago

To me, the need to resort to such tactics indicates that Uber doesn't have a very big advantage over its competitors. The usual reason passengers seem to prefer Uber is their easier availability and greater reliability. Others will catch on to this soon enough. It is also notable that in places with a better reputation for taxi services, such as in London, Uber's inroads have not been as great as they have been in SF or NY.

eertami 10y ago
>better reputation for taxi services, such as in London, Uber's inroads have not been as great as they have been in SF or NY. Odd, my personal experience has been the exact opposite. I can't remember any of my friends (aged in their 20s) ever getting a taxi in London but catching Uber's is a weekly occurrence.
- Wintamute 10y ago
  Same. London black cabs are fairly expensive, and at busy times (like just after pubs and bars close at night) you can have a really hard time trying to find one. I don't know what the deal is with the non-black cabs in London ... but they seem more shady, it's much harder to tell if the driver is registered or just some dude with a car, so I just avoid them. Uber solves both these problems. I and my friends are in our 30s, and we nearly all have been using Uber exclusively since it arrived.
  - throwaway049 10y ago
    If you're flagging down anything but a black taxi in central London then it's just some dude with a car: Official minicabs have to be booked by phone or from their offices.
- pcrh 10y ago
  A lot of those who used to drive for minicabs now drive under Uber's banner. However, for the last 30 years at least, in London there has always been the distinction between the more loosely regulated (and cheaper) minicabs with the more expensive Black Cabs providing a better service. With the advent of Uber and the like, minicab services have been the most under pressure since Black Cabs have officially sanctioned advantages that minicabs/Uber don't, such as using bus lanes, and actually knowing where they're going (rather than using a GPS). Also, they are more spacious than almost all ordinary vehicles and can accommodate you and up to 5 of your mates/family + luggage for the price of 1. In contrast a typical yellow taxi in NY has a tiny amount of space for the passenger, is usually upholstered with ripped plastic, and the driver is fresh off the boat, and a bit lost. So the improvement Uber offered over the prevailing options was much greater in NY and SF than in London.

chinathrow 10y ago

Tons of people here on HN use Uber - yet most of them know about those shady tactics used by Uber against Lyft. Genuine question: Why would you want to support such a company by being a customer?

kdamken 10y ago
The same reason everyone uses iPhones despite them being built in part by child labor - people don't care about how they get things, they care about what they get and how good they are. Uber as a company is slimy that does shady things to crush their competition. But Uber as a service is awesome and provides a way better experience than using a Taxi in most cities.
alistairSH 10y ago
UberXL is my most frequent use by far. It's easy to get a large SUV that can seat 6 passengers with room for luggage.
SyneRyder 10y ago
I've put my answer a bit higher in the thread: because the competition and customer experience are currently so much worse. (Lyft hasn't arrived in my city yet.) Some of the competitors here have used shady tactics against Uber as well, I've had taxi drivers pull up pretending to be my Uber driver. If a competitor can match or exceed Uber's service, I'd consider switching. The convenience of travelling interstate / overseas & using the same service I use at home is quite compelling though.
- DavidHm 10y ago
  Taxi drivers pretend to be your Uber driver? How on earth do they expect to get paid?
  - SyneRyder 10y ago
    I did wonder that. Perhaps he would have threatened to call it in to police as a customer refusing to pay. Maybe he just wanted to torch the ratings of Uber customers, by having them no-show for the Uber they actually ordered. The whole thing just felt very unsafe. This happened in the early hours of the morning as well. I was very glad when he finally drove off.

hybridsole 10y ago

Lyft user here. I always ask the question "What do you like about Lyft compared to driving for Uber"? The answer is that Lyft takes better care of them with better pay incentives and less rigorous scheduling demands. If you want more of your money to go to the driver instead of a central command, use Lyft. I've never noticed a lack of drivers in most medium-to-large sized cities that I'm.

Karunamon 10y ago
Could you clarify what you mean by "scheduling demands"? As I understand it, Uber is strictly work-when-you-want.
- robbies 10y ago
  Not OP, but both Uber and Lyft tie bonuses to weekly/monthly acceptance rate and rides completed. I can't recall numbers, and they have been tricky to find on my phone. But I too can anecdotally confirm that Lyft drivers seem to enjoy it more in the Bay Area, and one of the reasons I've heard is that the bonus structure is a bit more liberal.
  - haldean 10y ago
    A Lyft driver told me the other day that it was something like a 30% bonus on whatever you had earned that week when you hit 80 rides in a calendar week.

scalayer 10y ago

I've used Uber much more than Lyft, but I've had almost entirely positive experiences with both. Only one time did a Lyft driver cancel a trip on me after I waited 15mins and almost missed a flight. I reported the incident through the app and a $10 USD credit showed up instantly in my account with a friendly note from the rep. At an airport, an Uber driver picked up my fare and then immediately canceled it which caused a $5 USD charge on my account. A quick report through the app rectified the situation in < 24hrs. The Uber experience is so seamless across time-zones, countries, etc and directly integrates with Expensify. If Lyft expands more into Europe, I will definitely use them as well. I tend to use Lyft more in big US cities. Hailo is also quite popular in Europe. When traveling, I never take a regular taxi if I can help it. The one exception to this is Dublin, Ireland. Taxis are so ubiquitous and cheap that you can get one 24/7 from almost anywhere in city by just walking outside and putting your hand out. For the ultimate in customer service and luxury, Blacklane is better than both. You pay a huge surcharge for it, but sometimes you need a pre-scheduled ride that is 100% reliable.

SlashmanX 10y ago
Hailo is immensely popular in Dublin, absolutely fantastic service. Sometimes I take it for granted, then threads about Uber and Lyft come up and I realise how amazing it is.
- Snowdax 10y ago
  Dublin sure, but lot less decent down the country. Not nearly enough available rides, if any at times.
  - SlashmanX 10y ago
    Yeah but I guess that's a drawback of relying on existing taxi's. It's shocking trying to get a taxi down the country even without Hailo

brudgers 10y ago

Original discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8229081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8229081

blabla_blublu 10y ago

I try to use Lyft as often as I can, they seem to genuinely care for their employees(drivers). Uber is quite ruthless when it comes to pricing. Simple features such as tipping is not present. It is my part-time hobby of sorts to interview drivers who drive for both and inevitably (27 - 1) they prefer driving for Lyft. The one case where the driver said she prefers Uber was that the #rides were more (Bay area). I think voting with your wallet is a powerful concept and in some cases, it is the only thing we can do.

Nursie 10y ago

Uber just came to my town. I won't be using it. We have had a thriving taxi ecosystem here forever, and the money stays locally. I don't want the new worldwide taxi monopoly moving, thanks.

humbleMouse 10y ago
I felt the same way until I realized you can literally hit a couple buttons on your phone and have a car pick you up almost instantaneously and I don't have to deal with thinking about payment at all...
- Nursie 10y ago
  Can do that with the local cab apps too...