5 ms·

London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling

46 points by phodo 10y ago

fblp 10y ago
The numbers behind this project are quite amazing: http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/crossrail-in-numbers http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/crossrail-in-numbers
fsloth 10y ago
Does anyone have detailed information on the technology stack? What software are they using for the large scale modeling and model management? Is the AR solution referred to in the article custom? Whose bluetooth beacons are they using for indoor positioning?
igravious 10y ago
I've been hearing more and more about BIM (building information modeling) recently. Seems like that their total commitment to BIM was a key component of this massive project. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_information_modeling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_information_modeling I'm wondering what might happen if the wealth of structured information within some of these mega-projects finds its way onto the internet. I recognise that a lot of the construction data must be proprietary but what if were possible to open up some of this construction data? Perhaps this is an area the Open knowledge Foundation (or someone like them) should be tracking, assuming they are not already. https://okfn.org/ https://okfn.org/ ps: Superb in-depth article. I love me some mega-project info, don't know why!
- fsloth 10y ago
  Given the current security climate I would be amazed if anyone succeeds in opening datasets like this for the public. Given that with full access to structural data anyone can find the best ways to do all sorts of things. I'm not saying that someone would use it for planning demolitions, virtually train for troop operations or to figure out the best way to flood the system with gas, but because the use cases are so obvious...
oliyoung 10y ago
Literally in awe of the engineering it takes to build something like this, let alone metres beneath one of the world's largest cities
jensen123 10y ago
Good example of doing something well, that probably shouldn't have been done at all. This will make London a better city to live in, causing even more people to move there. This will make it even bigger than it already is. This will make it an even more attractive target for terrorism. This will cause the UK to enact even more police state like laws on surveillance etc. Why on earth don't they spend that money building a subway in some other UK city instead?
- osullivj 10y ago
  Couldn't agree more. UK has govt, finance, media, energy & tech all in London, which is massively overweight at ~10M people in Greater London vs 65M across UK. Germany spreads it out far better with govt in Berlin, finance in Frankfurt, tech in Munich, and lots of industry around major cities like Stuttgart, Hamburg etc. Or look at Italy with govt in Rome, finance in Milan, industry in Turin. Or the US with NY, Chicago, SF, Boston, Houston, Dallas all as major centres.
- barnabee 10y ago
  Making London (or any city) better to live in is a good idea if it's affordable, as is attracting more people to places that have a relative advantage in attracting investment and creating jobs. The terrorist argument doesn't make much sense - London must already be pretty high up on the list of "attractive" terrorist targets based on all kinds of factors and I can't see how a million or two more (or fewer) people is going to make much difference. On the other hand, there's an excellent argument for creating infrastructure outside London, it would be great to see a much stronger second city (or metropolitan region) - this would be attractive to some businesses that may be put off the capital by cost, relieve pressure on London, and be great for people for a multitude of reasons. Given how cheaply governments can borrow money right now, I don't understand why they're not doing both, or why developed countries in general currently spend so little on infrastructure.
  - sievebrain 10y ago
    It's not like the UK government isn't trying. The whole "Northern Powerhouse" and such. The basic problem is that people, by and large, want to live and work in London rather than Manchester (which is I think the only credible competitor to London for mega-city status right now). Building Crossrail isn't something where you can just sort of pick and choose where to drop it. London transport is horribly overcrowded already. If it doesn't keep up with demand then it's not like everyone will just say, oh well, we'll all just move en-masse to a different city. If that were going to happen it'd have happened already. Instead they'll just keep packing in like sardines and feel miserable. The UK already borrows huge sums of money. It's only cheap because so many countries have been or are printing money to fund public spending, which means it's not really anywhere near as cheap as it looks.

46 points by phodo 10y ago

fblp 10y ago

The numbers behind this project are quite amazing: http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/crossrail-in-numbers http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/crossrail-in-numbers

fsloth 10y ago

Does anyone have detailed information on the technology stack? What software are they using for the large scale modeling and model management? Is the AR solution referred to in the article custom? Whose bluetooth beacons are they using for indoor positioning?

igravious 10y ago

I've been hearing more and more about BIM (building information modeling) recently. Seems like that their total commitment to BIM was a key component of this massive project. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_information_modeling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_information_modeling I'm wondering what might happen if the wealth of structured information within some of these mega-projects finds its way onto the internet. I recognise that a lot of the construction data must be proprietary but what if were possible to open up some of this construction data? Perhaps this is an area the Open knowledge Foundation (or someone like them) should be tracking, assuming they are not already. https://okfn.org/ https://okfn.org/ ps: Superb in-depth article. I love me some mega-project info, don't know why!

fsloth 10y ago
Given the current security climate I would be amazed if anyone succeeds in opening datasets like this for the public. Given that with full access to structural data anyone can find the best ways to do all sorts of things. I'm not saying that someone would use it for planning demolitions, virtually train for troop operations or to figure out the best way to flood the system with gas, but because the use cases are so obvious...

oliyoung 10y ago

Literally in awe of the engineering it takes to build something like this, let alone metres beneath one of the world's largest cities

jensen123 10y ago

Good example of doing something well, that probably shouldn't have been done at all. This will make London a better city to live in, causing even more people to move there. This will make it even bigger than it already is. This will make it an even more attractive target for terrorism. This will cause the UK to enact even more police state like laws on surveillance etc. Why on earth don't they spend that money building a subway in some other UK city instead?

osullivj 10y ago
Couldn't agree more. UK has govt, finance, media, energy & tech all in London, which is massively overweight at ~10M people in Greater London vs 65M across UK. Germany spreads it out far better with govt in Berlin, finance in Frankfurt, tech in Munich, and lots of industry around major cities like Stuttgart, Hamburg etc. Or look at Italy with govt in Rome, finance in Milan, industry in Turin. Or the US with NY, Chicago, SF, Boston, Houston, Dallas all as major centres.
barnabee 10y ago
Making London (or any city) better to live in is a good idea if it's affordable, as is attracting more people to places that have a relative advantage in attracting investment and creating jobs. The terrorist argument doesn't make much sense - London must already be pretty high up on the list of "attractive" terrorist targets based on all kinds of factors and I can't see how a million or two more (or fewer) people is going to make much difference. On the other hand, there's an excellent argument for creating infrastructure outside London, it would be great to see a much stronger second city (or metropolitan region) - this would be attractive to some businesses that may be put off the capital by cost, relieve pressure on London, and be great for people for a multitude of reasons. Given how cheaply governments can borrow money right now, I don't understand why they're not doing both, or why developed countries in general currently spend so little on infrastructure.
- sievebrain 10y ago
  It's not like the UK government isn't trying. The whole "Northern Powerhouse" and such. The basic problem is that people, by and large, want to live and work in London rather than Manchester (which is I think the only credible competitor to London for mega-city status right now). Building Crossrail isn't something where you can just sort of pick and choose where to drop it. London transport is horribly overcrowded already. If it doesn't keep up with demand then it's not like everyone will just say, oh well, we'll all just move en-masse to a different city. If that were going to happen it'd have happened already. Instead they'll just keep packing in like sardines and feel miserable. The UK already borrows huge sums of money. It's only cheap because so many countries have been or are printing money to fund public spending, which means it's not really anywhere near as cheap as it looks.