4 ms·

I have some anecdotal perspective to offer in regards to where we tend to hang out when we’re young (reasons vary for us aged folk). One of the big reasons we

by enobrev 11y ago

I have some anecdotal perspective to offer in regards to where we tend to hang out when we’re young (reasons vary for us aged folk). One of the big reasons we end up at parks, or bus stops, or 7-11 parking lots, or wherever as teenagers is because we generally don't have the financial or social independence to go anywhere else to enjoy ourselves without the "burden" of adults. At 16, there aren't many places to go with other people your age to just hang out and socialize. You're too young for a bar. Restaurants are expensive. Malls are lame. Maybe a diner, but that's only 4-5 of you at a time, and you'll probably need to order something. And this can be a burden for a diner owner for taking up tables for the cost of 4 cups of coffee an hour. Your parents can go to bars and restaurants and each others houses and socialize. But as a teenager, going to someone's house generally requires the permission of other adults, and so on, which isn’t something you can plan around independently. And in our teenage years, we're generally trying to figure out what this life thing is without the parental supervision. It's difficult to explore independence with our parents within earshot. I saw a lot of this first-hand, even beyond my immediate peers, as a DJ throughout my teenage years. When my peers were looking to hang out, they came to me for options. If I couldn't provide directly, I would generally know who could. It was usually someone's house / apartment whose parents worked 16-20 hours per day (like my mother). My own friends and I would try to rent places out to throw gatherings, and we never had trouble finding people to fill the room. This was all about socializing and having a place to go. We needed these places to go without the pressures of our home lives and adults therein. And when we couldn't find a place, we resorted to waterfronts, parks, street corners, etc. Wherever we could find to just be ourselves with our peers. In college, for the first time for many, we have our own places: our dorms. Add to that more responsibility (for most), and a lack of income (for most), and what better place to hang out with your peers than hopping from dorm-to-dorm? Why go to a park or hang around at a bus stop when you can go one floor down to another dorm? You’re no longer required to go out into the cold to socialize with your peers. In adulthood, there are plenty of places to go, though most of them cost money. So in early adulthood, we enjoy our freedom to go anywhere and just "be". So it's bars, and restaurants, and wherever. We spend what little we make enjoying the newfound freedom to go anywhere. Sure, we _can_ go to the park, be we don't _have_ to go to the park. We can afford to go somewhere else and enjoy each-other's company, much unlike the previous decade.

stegosaurus 11y ago
This is an attitude I see from many of my friends and I fundamentally disagree because I think so many of those 'other places' are stifling and non-inclusive. A restaurant is a place where speaking more loudly than a certain amount will earn you ire from others. You're surrounded by other groups that aren't your group. There's a prescribed format. It's a ritual, you know? There's a sandbox out there, and the format is 'let's go and do X, for X hours, and that's it'. I hate restaurants, and cinemas, and cafes, and stuff. Just give me a roof and we'll make the fun. But the roof doesn't exist, because as a society, we decided that capitalism and the building of private castles is how it's going to work. Railing against that as an individual is terribly hard. The problem with it, is that if we decide as a society that these paid, gated experiences are how we're going to socialise, then everyone who doesn't work hard enough is excluded. That's how we get things like socio-economic groups. If you socialise in restaurants, then your friend circle reduces to the people who can afford to socialise in restaurants. If it's non-deliberate, then it's sad. If it is deliberate, then it's the 'ego thing' that I tried to speak of in the first post - it's about us not realising that we are humanity, we don't need to battle each other and assert dominance, we can just be, you know? Individual, yes, but one, too. We need public spaces and gatherings because otherwise the ultimate endgame is that people retreat into ever-smaller niche groups until we just sit on our own.
- enobrev 11y ago
  I don't know where you are or where you're from, but this reads to me like you'd really enjoy New York City. Not everyone likes big cities, of course, and not all big cities will match my explanation. But bare with me for a moment. I spent the majority of my twenties and some of my thirties in NYC, and it does match up very well with what you're saying. It definitely matches the habits I was alluding to as well. I've spent many a night on different roof-tops around the city. Most people have tiny apartments, so we tended not to visit one another, except for the occasional golden jewel of apartment - rooftop access. During the summer, there's almost always someone throwing a rooftop party, and we visited often (or had our own). Likewise, the parks are everywhere. They're immense, amazing, well-maintained, and well-visited by people from all walks. I've spent day-after-day in Union Square, Prospect Park, Central Park, whatever that park is along the entire West-Side-Highway, and Battery Park (amazing sunsets). Sometimes just to people-watch and sometimes to meet up with friends as we figure out our next adventure, but always an inviting place to be. There was also a trend in NYC - as I was leaving a few years ago - to start replacing major streets with pedestrian parks [1] (including Broadway in times square!), which I was 100% all for. Most locals I've known have been huge fans of getting cars out of Manhattan and making the streets more pedestrian-friendly, whether it be through tolls or just plain closing off major thoroughfares. And honestly, after living in 4 major cities around the US, there is nothing like going for a long walk around NYC. I'm in Chicago now, and walking more than 1.5 miles can get a bit tedious. I still do it in the warmer months, but it's still very much a driving city. In NYC, 1.5 miles is always interesting. You'll pass through three or more distinct and lively neighborhoods along the way. There are so many people out, so many buskers and people enjoying cafes and parks, that you _want_ to walk everywhere. There are plenty a night, while I was single and dieting, that I'd walk all the way home after a night out - through Lower Manhattan, over the Williamsburg bridge, and about another mile to Bushwick. Loved it every time. At any rate, my post wasn't in disagreement. It was merely an anecdotal description of _why_ we end up in commercial establishments in our younger adult lives. Overall I agree with you, and what I'm explaining above is that I've seen some form of what you seem to see as an ideal in action, and I'm an enormous fan of it. 1: http://www.pps.org/reference/broadway-boulevard-transforming-manhattans-most-famous-street-to-improve-mobility-increase-safety-and-enhance-economic-vitality/ http://www.pps.org/reference/broadway-boulevard-transforming...

by enobrev 11y ago

stegosaurus 11y ago

This is an attitude I see from many of my friends and I fundamentally disagree because I think so many of those 'other places' are stifling and non-inclusive. A restaurant is a place where speaking more loudly than a certain amount will earn you ire from others. You're surrounded by other groups that aren't your group. There's a prescribed format. It's a ritual, you know? There's a sandbox out there, and the format is 'let's go and do X, for X hours, and that's it'. I hate restaurants, and cinemas, and cafes, and stuff. Just give me a roof and we'll make the fun. But the roof doesn't exist, because as a society, we decided that capitalism and the building of private castles is how it's going to work. Railing against that as an individual is terribly hard. The problem with it, is that if we decide as a society that these paid, gated experiences are how we're going to socialise, then everyone who doesn't work hard enough is excluded. That's how we get things like socio-economic groups. If you socialise in restaurants, then your friend circle reduces to the people who can afford to socialise in restaurants. If it's non-deliberate, then it's sad. If it is deliberate, then it's the 'ego thing' that I tried to speak of in the first post - it's about us not realising that we are humanity, we don't need to battle each other and assert dominance, we can just be, you know? Individual, yes, but one, too. We need public spaces and gatherings because otherwise the ultimate endgame is that people retreat into ever-smaller niche groups until we just sit on our own.

enobrev 11y ago
I don't know where you are or where you're from, but this reads to me like you'd really enjoy New York City. Not everyone likes big cities, of course, and not all big cities will match my explanation. But bare with me for a moment. I spent the majority of my twenties and some of my thirties in NYC, and it does match up very well with what you're saying. It definitely matches the habits I was alluding to as well. I've spent many a night on different roof-tops around the city. Most people have tiny apartments, so we tended not to visit one another, except for the occasional golden jewel of apartment - rooftop access. During the summer, there's almost always someone throwing a rooftop party, and we visited often (or had our own). Likewise, the parks are everywhere. They're immense, amazing, well-maintained, and well-visited by people from all walks. I've spent day-after-day in Union Square, Prospect Park, Central Park, whatever that park is along the entire West-Side-Highway, and Battery Park (amazing sunsets). Sometimes just to people-watch and sometimes to meet up with friends as we figure out our next adventure, but always an inviting place to be. There was also a trend in NYC - as I was leaving a few years ago - to start replacing major streets with pedestrian parks [1] (including Broadway in times square!), which I was 100% all for. Most locals I've known have been huge fans of getting cars out of Manhattan and making the streets more pedestrian-friendly, whether it be through tolls or just plain closing off major thoroughfares. And honestly, after living in 4 major cities around the US, there is nothing like going for a long walk around NYC. I'm in Chicago now, and walking more than 1.5 miles can get a bit tedious. I still do it in the warmer months, but it's still very much a driving city. In NYC, 1.5 miles is always interesting. You'll pass through three or more distinct and lively neighborhoods along the way. There are so many people out, so many buskers and people enjoying cafes and parks, that you _want_ to walk everywhere. There are plenty a night, while I was single and dieting, that I'd walk all the way home after a night out - through Lower Manhattan, over the Williamsburg bridge, and about another mile to Bushwick. Loved it every time. At any rate, my post wasn't in disagreement. It was merely an anecdotal description of _why_ we end up in commercial establishments in our younger adult lives. Overall I agree with you, and what I'm explaining above is that I've seen some form of what you seem to see as an ideal in action, and I'm an enormous fan of it. 1: http://www.pps.org/reference/broadway-boulevard-transforming-manhattans-most-famous-street-to-improve-mobility-increase-safety-and-enhance-economic-vitality/ http://www.pps.org/reference/broadway-boulevard-transforming...