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This comment is super weird to me. I've been here since the beginning and I think comments have gotten more hostile since then. Also, I'm not aware of an at-la

This comment is super weird to me. I've been here since the beginning and I think comments have gotten more hostile since then. Also, I'm not aware of an at-large "HN stereotype". No one outside of HN that I interact with discusses HN, and if there's ever discussion of this stereotype here, I've missed it.

Alex3917 10y ago
In the beginning comments were mostly civil because every commenter knew each other, and today there's no point being hostile because there are too many people to make any sort of permanent impact anyway. There were a couple years in the middle that were a little chaotic, some of which I definitely contributed to, but things seem to have mostly settled down.
nostrademons 10y ago
I've also been here since the beginning and thought that comments have been getting meaner...but when I actually look back at old threads, I'm reminded that that's not, in general, true, and we were just as bad back then. The obvious conclusion to me is that my standards have changed. I'm older, hopefully wiser, and less inclined to put up with bullshit. So Hacker News has improved over the years, but my expectations have gone up faster than the rate of improvement, and so it seems like the quality of discourse has gone down. Reminds me of a comment I left on Reddit in 2012, which was basically that while it wasn't as engaging for me, it's worth remembering that there are still millions of new people who are just finding the site for the first time. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/rbqwc/by_request_i_discovered_reddit_the_day_it_opened/c44k24i https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/rbqwc/by_request_i_di...
- cbHXBY1D 10y ago
  I've been here and on Reddit (I remember that exact post of yours on Reddit) for years and I've had the same realization after going over old threads. I think that while the quality and meanness haven't changed much here on HN, there has been a marked shift away from "hard tech" content. For example, the article posted the other day about suicide in Greenland wouldn't have been posted here years ago. It was an interesting read and a thought provoking discussion but it doesn't fall in the realm of hacker news.
  - Tomte 10y ago
    But it does.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >For example, the article posted the other day about suicide in Greenland wouldn't have been posted here years ago. Really? Top articles from 2 random months in 2010: http://www.economist.com/node/16636027?story_id=16636027 http://www.economist.com/node/16636027?story_id=16636027 http://www.damninteresting.com/the-american-gustation-crisis-of-1985/ http://www.damninteresting.com/the-american-gustation-crisis... http://archive.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/08/russia_in_color_a_century_ago.html http://archive.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/08/russia_in_color... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/dispatches/2010/08/the_most_isolated_man_on_the_planet.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/dispatches/2... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/science/earth/12suburb.html?_r=2&em http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/science/earth/12suburb.htm... http://mentalfloss.com/article/18692/he-took-polaroid-every-day-until-day-he-died http://mentalfloss.com/article/18692/he-took-polaroid-every-... http://ruhlman.com/2010/09/so-you-wanna-be-a-chef%E2%80%94-by-bourdain-2/ http://ruhlman.com/2010/09/so-you-wanna-be-a-chef%E2%80%94-b...
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > It was an interesting read and a thought provoking discussion but it doesn't fall in the realm of hacker news. You're a hacker, and you found it "interesting" and the discussion was "thought provoking", so by the guidelines (which have been in place for very many years) it is solidly on topic for HN. Here's a thread from pg from 8 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=128439 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=128439 "Ad exec driven to suicide (partly) by trolls (nytimes.com)" Part of the reason you're seeing more discussion of suicide and mental health is because we're seeing less stigma and less taboo around these subjects.
  - ap22213 10y ago
    The content has become much more 'mainstream'. I think this is partly because over the last 10 years they're a been a popular culture fetishization of startups and entrepreneurship, and ycombinator in general has become much more widely known. I keep coming back but less so than in the past. I think the site has shifted a little away from my central interests.
- mixmax 10y ago
  We (or at least I) miss your long insightful rants :-)
  - nostrademons 10y ago
    :-) I've shortened my average comment significantly over the years, mostly because of time and attention constraints. I suspect that the comment ranking algorithm actually penalizes posts > ~5 paragraphs in length now; that'd explain why eg. edw519's posts rarely rank highly now. https://twitter.com/edw519/status/692478097837391872 https://twitter.com/edw519/status/692478097837391872
    - JadeNB 10y ago
      While the rating for an entirely identical comment seems about as scientific a test as one could hope for, perhaps at least some of the fall-off in points is a penalty for literally copying old comments? (Also, any one comment could fall through the cracks; the best comments can sometimes, by pure chance, fail to catch initial attention and fall out of view, without it necessarily reflecting anything but who was awake and browsing then—there's definitely a "rich get richer" effect in any system that promotes highly ranked content. For example, it would be interesting to know what times of day these two comments were posted.)
      - nostrademons 10y ago
        Well, I've also noticed the effect where when I write a short (2-3 paragraph) comment, it's instantly ranked at the top of the comments for the article with 1 point, while when I write a long (8-10 paragraph) comment, it's instantly ranked at the bottom of the comments for the article with 1 point.
        JadeNB 10y ago
        That's interesting, although, if it is more than just chance, it seems like it would say more about pg's attitudes towards desireable comments than about those of the broader community.
lolidaisuki 10y ago
> I've been here since the beginning and I think comments have gotten more hostile since then. I've been reading HN since around 2010 and to me it seems that there is now less hostility about technical topics but more hostility against anyone who isn't 100% politically correct. I also think that the quality of comments has decreased dramatically since. > No one outside of HN that I interact with discusses HN, and if there's ever discussion of this stereotype here, I've missed it. Many IRC communities I'm part of know HN and sometimes discuss it and the stereotype in those seems to be that HN users are overly sensitive, hypocritical, greedy and toxic. Many of them are also former HN users who now hate the site.
- TheLogothete 10y ago
  Naive (and synonyms) is the one I hear the most, and i tend to agree with it.
- protomyth 10y ago
  I think its more hostile than when I started. I'm pretty sure some of the comments about other people's religion wouldn't have stood in 2009[1]. The biggest difference to me is a tactical change of not refuting the other side or even acknowledging their argument, but just bury people you disagree with and take their voice. 1) yeah, I'm still a bit peeved https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10574861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10574861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11071013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11071013
  - dang 10y ago
    Religious flamewars are not allowed here and we point that out whenever we see them. If something like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10574861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10574861 comes up again, it would be good email us at hn@ycombinator.com. We don't see everything, so we rely on users to keep us informed.
    - protomyth 10y ago
      It wasn't a "Religious flamewars", it was a drive-by of FUD that has been repeated in political threads. I wasn't arguing for superiority of something, I was just pointing out the historical truth and beliefs of a church. Frankly, getting downvoted for quoting the founder/prophet of the church for the origin of the name was a pretty low point on HN for me.
aerique 10y ago
The HN stereotype or how I see HN referred to from the outside is that we're a bit of a Silicon Valley, startup, hipster clique. (Not necessarily agreeing with that.)

Alex3917 10y ago

In the beginning comments were mostly civil because every commenter knew each other, and today there's no point being hostile because there are too many people to make any sort of permanent impact anyway. There were a couple years in the middle that were a little chaotic, some of which I definitely contributed to, but things seem to have mostly settled down.

nostrademons 10y ago

I've also been here since the beginning and thought that comments have been getting meaner...but when I actually look back at old threads, I'm reminded that that's not, in general, true, and we were just as bad back then. The obvious conclusion to me is that my standards have changed. I'm older, hopefully wiser, and less inclined to put up with bullshit. So Hacker News has improved over the years, but my expectations have gone up faster than the rate of improvement, and so it seems like the quality of discourse has gone down. Reminds me of a comment I left on Reddit in 2012, which was basically that while it wasn't as engaging for me, it's worth remembering that there are still millions of new people who are just finding the site for the first time. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/rbqwc/by_request_i_discovered_reddit_the_day_it_opened/c44k24i https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/rbqwc/by_request_i_di...

cbHXBY1D 10y ago
I've been here and on Reddit (I remember that exact post of yours on Reddit) for years and I've had the same realization after going over old threads. I think that while the quality and meanness haven't changed much here on HN, there has been a marked shift away from "hard tech" content. For example, the article posted the other day about suicide in Greenland wouldn't have been posted here years ago. It was an interesting read and a thought provoking discussion but it doesn't fall in the realm of hacker news.
- Tomte 10y ago
  But it does.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >For example, the article posted the other day about suicide in Greenland wouldn't have been posted here years ago. Really? Top articles from 2 random months in 2010: http://www.economist.com/node/16636027?story_id=16636027 http://www.economist.com/node/16636027?story_id=16636027 http://www.damninteresting.com/the-american-gustation-crisis-of-1985/ http://www.damninteresting.com/the-american-gustation-crisis... http://archive.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/08/russia_in_color_a_century_ago.html http://archive.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/08/russia_in_color... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/dispatches/2010/08/the_most_isolated_man_on_the_planet.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/dispatches/2... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/science/earth/12suburb.html?_r=2&em http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/science/earth/12suburb.htm... http://mentalfloss.com/article/18692/he-took-polaroid-every-day-until-day-he-died http://mentalfloss.com/article/18692/he-took-polaroid-every-... http://ruhlman.com/2010/09/so-you-wanna-be-a-chef%E2%80%94-by-bourdain-2/ http://ruhlman.com/2010/09/so-you-wanna-be-a-chef%E2%80%94-b...
- DanBC 10y ago
  > It was an interesting read and a thought provoking discussion but it doesn't fall in the realm of hacker news. You're a hacker, and you found it "interesting" and the discussion was "thought provoking", so by the guidelines (which have been in place for very many years) it is solidly on topic for HN. Here's a thread from pg from 8 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=128439 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=128439 "Ad exec driven to suicide (partly) by trolls (nytimes.com)" Part of the reason you're seeing more discussion of suicide and mental health is because we're seeing less stigma and less taboo around these subjects.
- ap22213 10y ago
  The content has become much more 'mainstream'. I think this is partly because over the last 10 years they're a been a popular culture fetishization of startups and entrepreneurship, and ycombinator in general has become much more widely known. I keep coming back but less so than in the past. I think the site has shifted a little away from my central interests.
mixmax 10y ago
We (or at least I) miss your long insightful rants :-)
- nostrademons 10y ago
  :-) I've shortened my average comment significantly over the years, mostly because of time and attention constraints. I suspect that the comment ranking algorithm actually penalizes posts > ~5 paragraphs in length now; that'd explain why eg. edw519's posts rarely rank highly now. https://twitter.com/edw519/status/692478097837391872 https://twitter.com/edw519/status/692478097837391872
  - JadeNB 10y ago
    While the rating for an entirely identical comment seems about as scientific a test as one could hope for, perhaps at least some of the fall-off in points is a penalty for literally copying old comments? (Also, any one comment could fall through the cracks; the best comments can sometimes, by pure chance, fail to catch initial attention and fall out of view, without it necessarily reflecting anything but who was awake and browsing then—there's definitely a "rich get richer" effect in any system that promotes highly ranked content. For example, it would be interesting to know what times of day these two comments were posted.)
    - nostrademons 10y ago
      Well, I've also noticed the effect where when I write a short (2-3 paragraph) comment, it's instantly ranked at the top of the comments for the article with 1 point, while when I write a long (8-10 paragraph) comment, it's instantly ranked at the bottom of the comments for the article with 1 point.
      - JadeNB 10y ago
        That's interesting, although, if it is more than just chance, it seems like it would say more about pg's attitudes towards desireable comments than about those of the broader community.

lolidaisuki 10y ago

> I've been here since the beginning and I think comments have gotten more hostile since then. I've been reading HN since around 2010 and to me it seems that there is now less hostility about technical topics but more hostility against anyone who isn't 100% politically correct. I also think that the quality of comments has decreased dramatically since. > No one outside of HN that I interact with discusses HN, and if there's ever discussion of this stereotype here, I've missed it. Many IRC communities I'm part of know HN and sometimes discuss it and the stereotype in those seems to be that HN users are overly sensitive, hypocritical, greedy and toxic. Many of them are also former HN users who now hate the site.

TheLogothete 10y ago
Naive (and synonyms) is the one I hear the most, and i tend to agree with it.
protomyth 10y ago
I think its more hostile than when I started. I'm pretty sure some of the comments about other people's religion wouldn't have stood in 2009[1]. The biggest difference to me is a tactical change of not refuting the other side or even acknowledging their argument, but just bury people you disagree with and take their voice. 1) yeah, I'm still a bit peeved https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10574861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10574861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11071013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11071013
- dang 10y ago
  Religious flamewars are not allowed here and we point that out whenever we see them. If something like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10574861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10574861 comes up again, it would be good email us at hn@ycombinator.com. We don't see everything, so we rely on users to keep us informed.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    It wasn't a "Religious flamewars", it was a drive-by of FUD that has been repeated in political threads. I wasn't arguing for superiority of something, I was just pointing out the historical truth and beliefs of a church. Frankly, getting downvoted for quoting the founder/prophet of the church for the origin of the name was a pretty low point on HN for me.

aerique 10y ago

The HN stereotype or how I see HN referred to from the outside is that we're a bit of a Silicon Valley, startup, hipster clique. (Not necessarily agreeing with that.)