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I don't know why you are getting down voted. It's says much about society that you are. People on this site get outraged about App Store policies but not abou

I don't know why you are getting down voted. It's says much about society that you are. People on this site get outraged about App Store policies but not about child labor and Apple's ability to wash it's hands because the labor was contracted through a third party and they periodically do audits. God forbid Apple actually own the factory that makes their products and ensures that no children ever work there.

philwelch 17y ago
Apple may not own the factories (why the fuck would they, they're not a manufacturing company) but they do what they can to ensure children don't work in the factories that build their products. They've stopped doing business with the contractors that were using child labor. This story is the moral equivalent of turning "Apple fires employee for kicking co-worker in crotch" to "Apple caught kicking employees in crotch".
- yequalsx 17y ago
  No, it isn't the same moral equivalence. WalMart contracts out its night time cleaning. They didn't do this in the early days but they do it now. Of course one of the companies ended up hiring illegal workers and treating them badly and naturally WalMart claimed innocence. They didn't hire the workers. The company that did this lost its contract with WalMart. It's the don't ask, don't tell policy that corporations love to engage in so they can wash their hands clean for a gullible public.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
- yequalsx 17y ago
  Indeed, they shouldn't own the factory. If they owned the factory their bottom line might be affected. People might start asking uncomfortable questions about the pay of those employees. The current arrangement allows they to say, "We didn't hire these kids, it's not our fault. Why the fuck would we own the factory? "
  - philwelch 17y ago
    You seem to be implying that Apple deliberately contracts out their manufacturing specifically to exploit child labor. I find that absolutely contrary to the evidence--in particular, if Apple were doing that, wouldn't they try to cover this up instead of auditing the manufacturers themselves and making these abuses public? As it stands, Apple goes out of their way to ask the uncomfortable questions. There are lots of perfectly non-cynical reasons to outsource manufacturing--or for that matter, anything your business itself isn't exceptionally good at.
    - yequalsx 17y ago
      American companies contract out factory work so they can wash their hands when improprieties show up. They know this shit goes on and their quest for greater profits is more powerful than their social conscience. Apple could easily run the factory itself. If this meant a loss in profit then we must ask ourselves why it would mean a loss in profit. It would mean a loss in profit because Apple itself would never run a factory that was unsafe or exploited the workers. And this is the reason Apple and other Western companies share in the blame.
      - philwelch 17y ago
        "Apple could easily run the factory itself. If this meant a loss in profit then we must ask ourselves why it would mean a loss in profit. It would mean a loss in profit because Apple itself would never run a factory that was unsafe or exploited the workers. And this is the reason Apple and other Western companies share in the blame." This is a fallacious and ignorant argument. To understand why, stop and consider why things like AWS and Google Apps exist, just for starters. Then think about why Apple doesn't own their own cargo ships for international distribution, and why Apple uses FedEx rather than driving their own delivery trucks. There's no essential reason that manufacturing is any different. Apple's a design, development, and marketing company, not a manufacturing company. They don't know shit about manufacturing and they wouldn't be able to accomplish much by hiring the people who do. If you'd really rather buy a laptop from a company that runs their own manufacturing, buy a Lenovo. Of course, they're manufactured in China, and Lenovo doesn't do anything to audit the labor practices of their own factories, so we'll never know what goes on in there. But at least they're not evading responsibility for things they'll never tell us about.

philwelch 17y ago

Apple may not own the factories (why the fuck would they, they're not a manufacturing company) but they do what they can to ensure children don't work in the factories that build their products. They've stopped doing business with the contractors that were using child labor. This story is the moral equivalent of turning "Apple fires employee for kicking co-worker in crotch" to "Apple caught kicking employees in crotch".

yequalsx 17y ago
No, it isn't the same moral equivalence. WalMart contracts out its night time cleaning. They didn't do this in the early days but they do it now. Of course one of the companies ended up hiring illegal workers and treating them badly and naturally WalMart claimed innocence. They didn't hire the workers. The company that did this lost its contract with WalMart. It's the don't ask, don't tell policy that corporations love to engage in so they can wash their hands clean for a gullible public.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
yequalsx 17y ago
Indeed, they shouldn't own the factory. If they owned the factory their bottom line might be affected. People might start asking uncomfortable questions about the pay of those employees. The current arrangement allows they to say, "We didn't hire these kids, it's not our fault. Why the fuck would we own the factory? "
- philwelch 17y ago
  You seem to be implying that Apple deliberately contracts out their manufacturing specifically to exploit child labor. I find that absolutely contrary to the evidence--in particular, if Apple were doing that, wouldn't they try to cover this up instead of auditing the manufacturers themselves and making these abuses public? As it stands, Apple goes out of their way to ask the uncomfortable questions. There are lots of perfectly non-cynical reasons to outsource manufacturing--or for that matter, anything your business itself isn't exceptionally good at.
  - yequalsx 17y ago
    American companies contract out factory work so they can wash their hands when improprieties show up. They know this shit goes on and their quest for greater profits is more powerful than their social conscience. Apple could easily run the factory itself. If this meant a loss in profit then we must ask ourselves why it would mean a loss in profit. It would mean a loss in profit because Apple itself would never run a factory that was unsafe or exploited the workers. And this is the reason Apple and other Western companies share in the blame.
    - philwelch 17y ago
      "Apple could easily run the factory itself. If this meant a loss in profit then we must ask ourselves why it would mean a loss in profit. It would mean a loss in profit because Apple itself would never run a factory that was unsafe or exploited the workers. And this is the reason Apple and other Western companies share in the blame." This is a fallacious and ignorant argument. To understand why, stop and consider why things like AWS and Google Apps exist, just for starters. Then think about why Apple doesn't own their own cargo ships for international distribution, and why Apple uses FedEx rather than driving their own delivery trucks. There's no essential reason that manufacturing is any different. Apple's a design, development, and marketing company, not a manufacturing company. They don't know shit about manufacturing and they wouldn't be able to accomplish much by hiring the people who do. If you'd really rather buy a laptop from a company that runs their own manufacturing, buy a Lenovo. Of course, they're manufactured in China, and Lenovo doesn't do anything to audit the labor practices of their own factories, so we'll never know what goes on in there. But at least they're not evading responsibility for things they'll never tell us about.