7 ms·

AFAIK the drug was free for everyone without insurance, so the only ones who felt the actual price increase were the insurance companies. Am I wrong or there re

by mtobi 10y ago

AFAIK the drug was free for everyone without insurance, so the only ones who felt the actual price increase were the insurance companies. Am I wrong or there really is some merit to Shkrelis explanations?

icebraining 10y ago
Yeah, the cynic in me wonders how much of outrage isn't a media campaign by the insurance companies. As this article points out, the system is broken, yet everyone is pilling on him as if he was the real problem: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/everyone-hates-martin-shkreli-everyone-is-missing-the-point http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/everyone-h...
ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "AFAIK the drug was free for everyone without insurance" That was an adjustment made after the initial outrage over the price hikes. Also, worth considering the "50% price cut" made for hospitals was after raising the original price by 5000%: http://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=11105404 http://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=11105404 Lastly, raising the costs for insurance companies raises insurance premiums for customers, if you think they'd let these price rises eat into their own profits I'd suggest that was a little misguided.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  How many people are actually using this medication? And after, what, 70 years, no one else is making the drug or had come up with a new treatment?
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/24/martin-shkreli/fact-checking-martin-shkrelis-claim-daraprim-under/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/24/... "Daraprim is used to treat a parasitic infection known as toxoplasmosis, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention considers a leading cause of death attributed to food-borne illnesses. The Toxoplasma parasite can be transmitted through contaminated food, water, and kitchen utensils as well as contact with infected cat feces. While 60 million Americans carry the parasite with no symptoms, it can become deadly for those with weakened immune systems." ""Turing has not got a single clinical trial underway. Shkreli’s not testing new drugs of any kind for toxoplasmosis. He's got nothing registered," Attaran said. "No one needs a new drug for toxoplasmosis anyways. It works so well bloody well.""
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      It's only 2000 users in the US. Which is why no one bothers to make it, except Turing. It's easy enough to make, but the FDA changes to older drugs' approval creates perfect conditions for such abuse. Zero other companies have stepped up and got approval yet. Doesn't it take a while to get to clinical trials?
      - ZenoArrow 10y ago
        The volume of patients is irrelevant, the FDA could easily open up the market to competition by bringing in suppliers that were approved by other nations with similar medical standards. They could even compare the statistics regarding complications arising from the drug, it's not exactly like there would be a shortage of applicable data. Why they choose not to do so is beyond me, perhaps other drug companies would fight back against such a move, even if it was only limited to generics. On a side note, regarding those 2000, there's evidence that toxoplasmosis is under treated in the US, particularly with regards to pregnant women. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2011/10/u-s-not-taking-basic-step-to-prevent-toxoplasmosis-in-newborns-researcher-contends.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2011/10/u-s-not-takin...
gizmo 10y ago
The that only insurance companies felt the price is an audacious lie by Shkreli and his people. Documents that were subpoenaed for the congress hearing revealed that people with insurance got stuck with 30%-50% co-pays. At 75.000 a bottle a 40% co-pay is still a 30.000 out of pocket expense. Regular people have to remortgage their house to come up with this kind of money. Shkreli basically lied about everything. He lied about his business model. He lied about the availability of the drugs. He lied about his programs that supposedly made the drug available to people who could not otherwise afford it. The guy is a real piece of work. Watch the hearing on C-SPAN if you don't believe me. http://www.c-span.org/video/?404183-1/hearing-prescription-drug-market http://www.c-span.org/video/?404183-1/hearing-prescription-d... http://www.c-span.org/video/?406885-1/sudden-price-spikes-decadesold-rx-drugs-inside-monopoly-business-model http://www.c-span.org/video/?406885-1/sudden-price-spikes-de... Found the timestamp, starts at 00:41:00 (second hearing) where victims of Martin Shkreli talks about their attempts to mortgage their house in order to pay for the drug for their sick child.
- koolba 10y ago
  So who's the real crook? Is it the sleazebag who legally takes advantage of the terrible system that we refer to as the US health insurance system? Or is it the 435 representatives and 100 senators who are in the pockets of the insurance companies and pharma companies that perpetuate our current system? At a moral level, yes the guy is as bad as they come (and those youtube videos of him are just plain weird). But I'd argue he's not the cause of our problems, he's a product of the system that we've cornered ourselves into.
  - unfamiliar 10y ago
    Exactly. This guy is such a smug bastard that he makes the perfect lightning rod for the whole country to direct their rage at, deflecting it away from the actual system that allows this to happen.
  - gizmo 10y ago
    He's a real crook in a system that's awful. It's not either-or in my book. So I agree he's not the root cause. He just pushes the existing framework to its "logical" conclusion. But only if "Logical" means being as ruthlessly exploitative as possible. Even the other sleazebag drug CEOs don't go this far, so Shkreli is uniquely contemptible. But yes, ideally anger should be directed to the pharma industry and health insurance as a whole, not to Shkreli the individual.

by mtobi 10y ago

icebraining 10y ago

Yeah, the cynic in me wonders how much of outrage isn't a media campaign by the insurance companies. As this article points out, the system is broken, yet everyone is pilling on him as if he was the real problem: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/everyone-hates-martin-shkreli-everyone-is-missing-the-point http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/everyone-h...

ZenoArrow 10y ago

> "AFAIK the drug was free for everyone without insurance" That was an adjustment made after the initial outrage over the price hikes. Also, worth considering the "50% price cut" made for hospitals was after raising the original price by 5000%: http://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=11105404 http://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=11105404 Lastly, raising the costs for insurance companies raises insurance premiums for customers, if you think they'd let these price rises eat into their own profits I'd suggest that was a little misguided.

MichaelGG 10y ago
How many people are actually using this medication? And after, what, 70 years, no one else is making the drug or had come up with a new treatment?
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/24/martin-shkreli/fact-checking-martin-shkrelis-claim-daraprim-under/ http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/24/... "Daraprim is used to treat a parasitic infection known as toxoplasmosis, which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention considers a leading cause of death attributed to food-borne illnesses. The Toxoplasma parasite can be transmitted through contaminated food, water, and kitchen utensils as well as contact with infected cat feces. While 60 million Americans carry the parasite with no symptoms, it can become deadly for those with weakened immune systems." ""Turing has not got a single clinical trial underway. Shkreli’s not testing new drugs of any kind for toxoplasmosis. He's got nothing registered," Attaran said. "No one needs a new drug for toxoplasmosis anyways. It works so well bloody well.""
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    It's only 2000 users in the US. Which is why no one bothers to make it, except Turing. It's easy enough to make, but the FDA changes to older drugs' approval creates perfect conditions for such abuse. Zero other companies have stepped up and got approval yet. Doesn't it take a while to get to clinical trials?
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      The volume of patients is irrelevant, the FDA could easily open up the market to competition by bringing in suppliers that were approved by other nations with similar medical standards. They could even compare the statistics regarding complications arising from the drug, it's not exactly like there would be a shortage of applicable data. Why they choose not to do so is beyond me, perhaps other drug companies would fight back against such a move, even if it was only limited to generics. On a side note, regarding those 2000, there's evidence that toxoplasmosis is under treated in the US, particularly with regards to pregnant women. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2011/10/u-s-not-taking-basic-step-to-prevent-toxoplasmosis-in-newborns-researcher-contends.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2011/10/u-s-not-takin...

gizmo 10y ago

The that only insurance companies felt the price is an audacious lie by Shkreli and his people. Documents that were subpoenaed for the congress hearing revealed that people with insurance got stuck with 30%-50% co-pays. At 75.000 a bottle a 40% co-pay is still a 30.000 out of pocket expense. Regular people have to remortgage their house to come up with this kind of money. Shkreli basically lied about everything. He lied about his business model. He lied about the availability of the drugs. He lied about his programs that supposedly made the drug available to people who could not otherwise afford it. The guy is a real piece of work. Watch the hearing on C-SPAN if you don't believe me. http://www.c-span.org/video/?404183-1/hearing-prescription-drug-market http://www.c-span.org/video/?404183-1/hearing-prescription-d... http://www.c-span.org/video/?406885-1/sudden-price-spikes-decadesold-rx-drugs-inside-monopoly-business-model http://www.c-span.org/video/?406885-1/sudden-price-spikes-de... Found the timestamp, starts at 00:41:00 (second hearing) where victims of Martin Shkreli talks about their attempts to mortgage their house in order to pay for the drug for their sick child.

koolba 10y ago
So who's the real crook? Is it the sleazebag who legally takes advantage of the terrible system that we refer to as the US health insurance system? Or is it the 435 representatives and 100 senators who are in the pockets of the insurance companies and pharma companies that perpetuate our current system? At a moral level, yes the guy is as bad as they come (and those youtube videos of him are just plain weird). But I'd argue he's not the cause of our problems, he's a product of the system that we've cornered ourselves into.
- unfamiliar 10y ago
  Exactly. This guy is such a smug bastard that he makes the perfect lightning rod for the whole country to direct their rage at, deflecting it away from the actual system that allows this to happen.
- gizmo 10y ago
  He's a real crook in a system that's awful. It's not either-or in my book. So I agree he's not the root cause. He just pushes the existing framework to its "logical" conclusion. But only if "Logical" means being as ruthlessly exploitative as possible. Even the other sleazebag drug CEOs don't go this far, so Shkreli is uniquely contemptible. But yes, ideally anger should be directed to the pharma industry and health insurance as a whole, not to Shkreli the individual.